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DNR proposes doubling+ hunting fishing licenses.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think so, too great sense of humor and lended a lot to the site. Knows his stuff when it comes to biology and environment issues.

I did dend him a PM, no response so far.
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:28 pm    Post subject: pot Reply with quote

conis.

I think we should write to his e-mail addy rather then p.m. him ..
If they are not coming to the site .. then they would not see it ..
when I wrote I used thier e-mail addy ..

I agree with you ..Great sense of humor and alot things that we all can learn from him ...
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Conis
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point. He probably isn't getting them. I get an em on a private message. He might be using a school computer and have that feature switched off? Or notification em doesn't make it through the schools spam filter.

Tip: If you send emails to anyone in a school system, use plain text mode, keep it VERY short, and to only one recipient (right brad?). All email in/out of a school system net is content-screened to the MAX.
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 1:57 am    Post subject: pm Reply with quote

hmmm .. I remember now that I used that feature ... long ago .
so I forgot that it would do that .. maybe I should go in and see if mine got turned off some how ...
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bknoll
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah.....the school email nazi's have gotten bad. Even though it's a filter doing the dirty work, I can't help but picture in my mind a scene from "Good Morning Viet Nam" where those twins in uniform edited everything Robin Williams could and could not say. They probably have "CONIS" up on their bulletin board with 8 red flags next to it!!
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Conis
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I am shooting for 10 flags. Kind of Like the TV show " Your want to be a millionaire" Each step gets harder.

I think what happens is once an addy gets spam blocked a couple times, it gets blacklisted. any mail coming in with multiple recipients (as in a joke) or with a long html page w/picture(s) is toast.

One em I sent to BK came back as spam blocked. Reason given was a potential Nigerian Fraud Scheme? Say what?

On the other hand, can you imagine what would happen to a school systems mail servers unless they were spam nazi's about it?

The tech at my ISP told me that 97% of the stuff coming into their mail server is spam and it slows the system down by hours until it just flat bogs down and quits. No easy fix since much ot it comes from all over the planet.
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Ron Petersen
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:04 am    Post subject: Hunting & Fishing license Reply with quote

Here's the Iowa story:
Before you can hunt Deer:
1 - you have to buy a small game license- Why????
2 - you also have to buy a habitat stamp (which came about 1 year when everyone fought license increases and they said they wouldn't raise license, but imposed an $8.50 habitat stamp)!!! But no raise!!!
Breakdown---
$17.50 - small game
$8.50 - Habitat stamp
$27.00 - license for 1 Deer
$1.00 - for some other thing, not sure what!!
$54.00 Total for your first Deer!!

With this you cannot trap, hunt any birds, or fish.
If you want to shoot more than one deer - it is $28.00 per deer until the 3rd one, which is $11.00 - providing they all gotten with the same hunting method - you cannot mix bow and gun kills together.

Non Resident Deer is $221.00 - not sure if they have to buy the small game license!!!

Fishing license is also $17.50 excluding trout stamp
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bknoll
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have they given any reasoning as to why a deer hunter would have to buy a small game license?? Seems weird....
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Ron Petersen
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No - they haven't, but it sure is a neat way to get more money!!!!
Especially since very few even hunt small game - and also, you still cannot hunt any birds with that license!
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Conis
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An $8.50 Habitat stamp? Thats rich. Do they give the money to the farmers to offset crop damage?

A small game license? Thats a no brainer. That permits a hunter to shoot 50 lb deer.

The $1.00 is the permit processing fee which is the tax, tax.

$27 for a deer license? Hey lets face it. It cost more to manufacture a deer than it did 10 years ago. Solution? Import them from China trhough Walmart...

Because they can...
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems Michigan don't have it so bad considering Ron's report.. Maybe the State should attach access permits to your car registration rather than the driver's license.. I still think it would help keep the price of hunting and fishing down.. Sportsman won't have to bear the whole weight of paying for the management of our entire State's citizen's resources.. We all have a stake in it.. Everyone benefits in one way or another for our areas riches.. If they don't maybe paying a mandatory fee will remind them to visit what they don't know.. Find out what they are paying for... Cool I would.. Get my money's worth, so to speak..
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Ron Petersen
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if you still have it as it wasn't available to out-of-staters, but I always thought your sportsman license was a bargain - fish, hunt etc. all on one tag.

Being an old fart I was able to buy a lifetime license for small game and normal fishing for $51.00 each ($102.00) Now, If I can just live long enough I might win yet!!!!!

I still have to pay the full blast on everything else!!

Beer is getting cheaper, only because I can't drink as much!!!!
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Conis
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At one time, the sportsmans license was a bargain. Not so sure any more. I don't hunt or fish enough to justify one. I don't bow hunt, I don't small game hunt. Trout fish a few days each spring, maybe once twice on the big lakes. Indifferent about rifle deer hunting, take it/leave it. At $54, I would leave it.

I have another "soap box special" on the burner.
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doug miller
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The question is whether the cost of these various licenses is proportionate to how much everything else costs today.

Seems like houses and cars are (at least) three to four times more expensive than they were 25 years ago. My first new car, a 1982 Toyota Tercel, cost just over $4,000.00 brand new.

When I started college in the fall of 1973, tuition at Grand Valley State Colleges was $11 an hour. We were upset when it went up to $13. College costs have increased much faster than most everything else. And when I read the undecipherable titles of the papers my former English profs at GVSC and MSU are writing, I am convinced students are getting less than we did 30 years ago.

And someone explain to me how they come up with the price of a faucet today--hard to figure out how a curved pipe can cost so much.

Then I look at a kids meal at McDonalds--you can get 4 chicken nuggets, french fries, a half pint of chocolate milk and a toy that in some cases has more computer power than a 20 year old PC does--for about $3.00. Now that is a deal!!
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Conis
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Then I look at a kids meal at McDonalds--you can get 4 chicken nuggets, french fries, a half pint of chocolate milk and a toy that in some cases has more computer power than a 20 year old PC does--for about $3.00. Now that is a deal!!


He shoots, he scores... another bull seye.

Whether hunting/fishing license costs in another state (as compared to Michigan) are a deal or a rip off is moot. It just could be another state is a step ahead in the gouge 'em tactic or just maybe the sportsmen are getting more for their money with improved and streamlined EFFECTIVE management which justifies increased costs? Apples/Oranges. Improved management should cost less, not more!

We are paying twice as much for half as much. My story and I am sticking with it. And there are finite limits to what I will pay, for less. I don't care what other states (inc Canada) charge. If it is more but worth it, I will go there. If Michigan licenses increase another 25%, I will go there (elsewhere.) It's a get what you pay for MARKET, just like the Mi auto industry is now figuring out.

I wrote this "conis special dissertation" about the gross mismanagement of the deer overpopulation problem here mid state in the late 80's early 90s. Clueless DNR. The crop farmers who had become "deer farmers" by default took things into thier own hands to stay alive. Finally the DNR had to jump on board. 10's/thousands deer were slaughtered, year round to get the situation under control after the DNR was forced to concede mis management, show a presence and justify their existence. This is the shortest version.

You think "wild" (planted) turkeys are cool, reintroduction of a native Michigan species? Be careful what you wish for.

Now we have the EXACT same situation with these monstrous-overwhelming flocks of turkeys that are doubling in population yearly, doing crop damage equivalent to deer, and devastating all ground nesting bird species, including grouse and pheasant. Does the Dnr care? Doesn't appear so. Can they do anything about it, probably not. Are the farmers forced to deal with it? Yes they are. Are they? Yes, just like they dealt with the Cormorants in Cedarville. Take em out. Only difference is the turkeys can be eaten.

We have flocks off these "flying pigs" in the hundreds (per flock). The Novelty has worn off. See, the DNR brought these in to start a new hunting sport in Michigan, bring in the license $$$. And with this, you have to pay the $$$ to get a zone hunting permit and blah blah blah like they are scarce or something. By contrast, Starlings are scarce. When a farmer sees 200-300 of thes around his silo 24/7 and isn't amused with the novelty of it all, and when a shotgun fired in the air no longer scatters them, Whoops, empty the autoloader and into the front end loader and off to the dump. This is whatís real. Not about meat or sport. It's about DNR mis management and who REALLY foots the bill here?

Here, mid state... is a poachers paradise. It is all private farm land, large tracts, corn, beans potatoes with just enough unfarmable "rough" land to provide nesting and cover. Since the farmers feel that they are feeding these herds and flocks of quasi wild animals, out of their pockets, they feel entitled to control the population of same, since the DNR has offered very little "management" unless there is a profit in it for the DNR. People poach. No one cares. No one rats. The DNR doesn't respond either... because of insufficient man power or they donít care, either. It is all about the money. If the money ain't there, neither is the DNR.

Now then, if they continue to raise license fees, based on increased "management cost", and founded on an abysmal track record over the last decade+, do you honestly think it is going make a + difference in terms of in-field enforcement of existing game laws. Or stocking of who knows what, next?

Sorry. I see it as old school. Moving forward to fail.

They have "youth deer whacking weekend" and "free fishing weekend". They ought to have a "fill up the back of your pickup with shot, beat or muskrat trapped turkeys for $25" weekend. Make a few bucks off of it.

Thatís how stupid this has become. I am not paying $54 for a deer license because neither the "sport" or venison is worth it. I can get free crop damage shot venison year round. Ditto for the corn fed terrestrial cormorants/ flying carp with wings (turkeys). I should pay to control a nuisance created by the DNR? Thatís what they think. I don't think so.

These turkeys aren't wild or hunt able. They are too stupid to qualify as game animals, birds or whatever. Big sport. I have never bought a turkey permit or will I ever. This is a good place to leave this.

Any of you remember the Sichuan Pheasant stocking train wreck in the 80's? A huge $$$ loser trainwreck idea. They finally took the remnant of several (tens of) thousand pen raised birds and dispersed them around the state basically to ditch them and cut losses. What the foxes didn't get, the farmers did after they hung around the barnyards eating with the chickens. Too bad they tasted like a Goodyear and didn't reproduce in the wild. Oh well. Just one more experiment gone south.

There is your license $$ at work. Maybe lets do a study about it? I am all done paying money for nothing. Good $ after bad. And thatís about what things have come down to buying a hunting/ fishing license in Michigan.

The private landowners who ARE footing the bill are either going to see management results or take things into theri own hands. About like where things stand. Those hunting/fishing on public lands and waterways can pay the fish and game tax.

Coyotes were reintroduced in this area 20 years ago as an answer to deer population control. I'll save this train wreck epic for later.
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Kevin Gibbons
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats very good Conis. Fish and wild life last year paid in the millions for a new boat just to set in the cheboygan river and go out once or twice a year. Put a full crew on it, the same with the two other boats that they have in the cheboygan river. How many thousands does it take to opperate a year? And what good are they doing? What a waste in money right know. There about 7 to 8 employees right now setting around there collecting there pay and doing what? Three or four captains mates and engineers. We are paying for this. At least the private run company's that have ferry boats or tugs lay off there employees in the winter when not in use. Just wasting more money then they want to double something because they can't operate without more money. When is this going to stop. Of course this is federal not state. But does it matter.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Fish and wild life last year paid in the millions for a new boat just to set in the cheboygan river and go out once or twice a year.


When they do go out, they "do a study" and "get data". Who knows what they do with this data except study it. I am not opposed to scientific study. I am opposed to wasted money. Waste it is what they do best. The rest of the time when they arent gathering or studying data, they are sititng around having coffee and donuts. The FWS version of the Maytag Repairman.

DNR ditto, only theri "maytag money" is drying up.

Those in charge are always the last to go down the tube.
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bknoll
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
they are sititng around having coffee and donuts.


Where do I sign up for this job??
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Kevin Gibbons
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Through the US goverment or the DNR fisheries devission. Or most likely any other division of goverment. But you must like coffee donuts and beer. And like to set on your a--
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But you must like coffee donuts and beer


I think I might qualify!
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Conis
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This isn't as simple as you think. You have to be able to rapidly jam 6 donuts in your mouth when your senior asks you a question. Then look official. This gives you extra time to come up with official sounding BS and get off the hook. A good all purpose response is "I am studying this problem, please pass the coffee.".

Just don't make any decisions and you'll be good to go until you retire!
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Kevin Gibbons
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And if you are a captain you need to no the front of the boat from the back of the boat otherwards bow from stern. And you need to no where the captains quaters are located very important. The galley is always downstairs. This is if you ever even get on the boat.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I am getting it here:

Donuts portside. Coffee Starboard. Beer is in the bilge. Don't get lost onboard, on the taxpayer funded cruises. That would be worthy of another study.
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TonyDriza
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conis wrote:
Donuts portside. Coffee Starboard. Beer is in the bilge. Don't get lost onboard, on the taxpayer funded cruises. That would be worthy of another study.


So where do I sign up to start studying? I'm feeling Cajun tonight, so could it be beignets and cafe' au lait? As long as I'm helping to fund a cruise, might as well go along, as a deckhand if nothing else...

Cheers......................Tony
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