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Personal Defense - Firearms
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Kevin Gibbons
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Joined: 30 May 2006
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Location: cheboygan, mi

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know what to thinkl here. I don't even lock my door when I'm gone, I don't even know where the key is for the house. I don't know if it has ever been locked. I hope we never have that problem. I don't even lock my pole barn and if I did then my naibors wouldn't be able to borrow things. They are good about returning so I don't ever stop them from borrowing. I hope it never comes down to using guns to defend my home. I'm a gun person but I don't think that I could ever pull one on another person. I was allways taught safty with a gun and you don't point them at another person.
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bknoll
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Joined: 02 Oct 2002
Posts: 317
Location: Linden, Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Kevin...I do envy you. What is the name of the town you live in? Utopia, Michigan?? Just kidding of course....wish we didn't have to lock things up. Builders have gotten their tools stolen out of our neighborhood a couple of times and it's pretty common for unoccupied new builds to get busted into. Really does make me sick.......
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Conis
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Joined: 15 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brad... I see you are on an avatar mission! I especially like the armed squirrels. I have been live trapping squirrels for the last week since I am literally over run. Relocating them 3-4 miles from here. As of two more this morning, up to 17. Mostly grey/ fox. They aren't happy now that the cafeteria is closed.

Brief story: 5-6 years ago, we had a neighborhood incident (and we are out in EAST BFE hinterlands). A LOUD crash up at the corner ,maybe 200 yards from my house. See tail lights at the corner T insersection looking like UPSIDE DOWN, Not good.

Short version: six profoundly drunk individuals (aged 18-22) had borrowed someones new bonneville and missed the corner, hitting a 3' boulder at the intersection. I ran up there to see what was happening. Some so drunk they couldn't stand, 5 men, one woman. Came back and called the sheriff department.

In the interim, one of them has tried to move the car off the road and pulled it into my neighbors driveway (big mistake) When the sheriff arrived he was trying to change a flat. He fessed up as the driver and was arrested for DUI on the spot. What about the other 4 drunks running around on my property and my neighbors? I asked the sheriff deputy "You gonna take care of these other guys?"

Deputies response: "If you catch any of them, don't beat them up too bad... and call me back" (Say what?) Welcome to Mecosta County.

My neighbor is an ex-marine, half nuts, well armed and ace shot. One of these drunk bozos was trying to get into his house through a sliding door.
Neighbor came around the side of the house with his .45, fired one about 3" over the top of the drunks head in turn causing him to bail off the deck '8 to the ground where he landed on his head. He took off running toward the creek with neighbor in hot pursuit, .45 on one hand, 3 mil candle power spotlight in the other.

Finally the drunk tried to lay down in a bunch of raspberry bushes next to the creek. Neighbor had him pinned down. Let a round rip into a tree every few minutes, scan the area with the light.

I know one thing for a fact: That drunk guy had a very long walk home with some profoundly soiled underware. Neighbor could have been arrested for any number of things, for the sheer terror job he did on the drunk. So prove it?

Nor has there been a problem in the neighborhood, since. Word gets around.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never used to have to lock things up either. Lived in the same place for 31 years... never locked the doors or outbuildings. Everyone knew every one else. Never a problem.

It started to change maybe 10 years ago. B&Es during broad daylight. Cars parked on our rural county roads with light off at 3 am, doing what? More and more incidents. I attribute it to kids looking for drug money.

Forget 911 sheriff dept response. They have one deputy for the county on weekday nights, maybe 2-3 on Friday sat night. 30-45 minutes response time. I keep things locked up now. I have an alarm system on my home and shop. Outdoor motion lights on everything. I am not paranoid. It has come to this.

We have taken "neighborhoor watch" to a new level; More like a swat team response. Take care of ourselves. (see above)
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bknoll
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Joined: 02 Oct 2002
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Location: Linden, Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I especially like the armed squirrels.


Ain't nobody busting into their nest without a fight!!!
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bknoll
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Location: Linden, Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I see you are on an avatar mission!


Terry....this is what happens when you teach a man to fish!!
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Conis
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bknoll wrote:
Quote:
I especially like the armed squirrels.


Ain't nobody busting into their nest without a fight!!!


I have some of those, They been taking training at al quida camps, know kung foo, and will drop an innocent man like a sack of dirt.
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Squeaky
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Joined: 15 Dec 2002
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Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know exactly as to what you are saying about our neigborhoods. We have had the police chase a guy thru or front lawn into our back, we have had a guy taken down in our front lawn, we have had a lock down on our street, had a perimeter, had a robbery on our corner with a knife. Could go on and on. Very sad too, cause this is coming from the city. These are juveniles that do not even live in this area. This is a very nice area and what we all have to do is stick together and run these little druggies back into their own area. And I would not make these kind of accusations (druggies) but in talking with the law this is what they are telling us. You are lucky Kevin. We too use to leave our doors unlocked but no more. This kind of crap is happening everywhere. No one is really exempt. We have a new subdivision that the homes value anywhere from $200-$300 thousand dollar homes and they were having a horrible problem with break-ins-during the days while people are at work working for what they have. Guess they caught these punks, that were from the city. We have to take back our communities. Drugs are playing such a horrible price on everyone in one way or another... I have lived in my area for most of my life and I have seen good changes but also some very bad changes. Nothing stays the same for ever but we can and should do whatever to keep it a good place.
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Rich
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Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Waterford, WI

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We just had 2 murders in broad daylight at busy gas stations within days of eachother in Milwaukee. Crime isn't just spreading it's getting bolder. Drugs are the primary factor but a soft justice system plays a huge part. People will not comply with laws unless they fear the consequences.
Being armed in the bigger cities ( business or residential ) is becoming a must.
I hate the fact that I have to live a half hour from my hometown and my business because of scum that is likely being supported our tax dollars.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No doubt, things were much safer and more predicatble 10-20 years ago.

I personally know of two individuals involved in road-rage incidents, no names mentioned, one lives on BBI, the other in Topinabee and he is 80% recovered after brain surgery, after he was hit in the head with a tire iron.

Problem with pulling a gun on these gangsters is that they probably have a gun, too, (illegal street gun) and all of a sudden a confrontation escalates into a shoot out in the street.

4-5 years ago I saw an incident at a gas station, just south of 75, in Pontiac. (how to tell this story without coming off a racist?) Bunch of gangster-thugs confronted a white guy dressed in a suit and tie, filling his car. " Yo...Wrong neighborhood... on our turf... (paraphrased). Within 2 seconds, the lead gangster had the business end of a .40 glock installed in his nostrel. Off duty cop... whoops End of that discussion in a hurry.

See, that cop was street smart, knew the area, knew how to respond and what would happen next unless he took immediate control of the situation.

I don't know how it all turned out. I was leaving and saw the gun come out... I was burning rubber... get the hell out of there.

Everybody down there carries, legal or not. Who wants to live in fear?
Not enough police to go around. Blatent disregard for law and legal system. Take care of one's self as an only option? Or move.
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Squeaky
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We also had a 80 year old gentlemen pumping his gas at our Meijer's gas station and while he was pumping a young man (I would like to call him something else ) jumped into this gentlemens car, backed over him and then dragged him for a ways. Not to sure if the creep took off in his car or not but they did catch him. The older man ( a retired doctor ) ended up in a coma for quite a while and then ended up passing away from his injuries. This was not the first time this creep had been in trouble. I think he got life after this. Why did they not keep him the first time he got into trouble. And Grandholm wants to let inmates out? Rolling Eyes
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Rich
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Location: Waterford, WI

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Conis, you better know what you're in for if you plan to use a gun for protection. It's got to be readily available in order to be useful and that can cause problems when kids are around. Protecting yourself can also get you put on trial, except in Texas.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich wrote:
I agree with Conis, you better know what you're in for if you plan to use a gun for protection. It's got to be readily available in order to be useful and that can cause problems when kids are around. Protecting yourself can also get you put on trial, except in Texas.


Not "can"... but WILL if there is anything slightly IFFY about a personal defense shooting. The laws have to be changed to protect law abiding citizens, not criminals. It is possible for a criminal to sue a citizen if wounded (not killed) in a self defense shooting.

Another example: A case when some thug was attempting to break into an occupied home... throwing a steel garbage can at a sliding glass door in order to break it, which he did after 3-4 attempts. High on drugs, numerous felony convictions.

After breaking the door, he was intercepted by the homeowner with a handgun, right in the threshold. DOA.

Had the thug made another 2-3 feet into the house, The homeowners self defense plea would not have been arguable. As it was, without witnesses, the order of events was unclear as to whether the thug was shot outside and fell into the threshold or what happened EXACTLY. Exactly being the operative word as far as the law is concerned. It went to trial. No idea how it turned out.

A similar story involved some 80+ year old woman who had been B&Ed twice, (threatened once) by a local thug. She knew who it was, so did the police. Episode 3: Thug was intercepted by granny with a shotgun coming in through the window. DOA. She didn't get off clean, either, inspite of the history.

If there is a legal moral: There had better be clear evidence that someone was inside your home, not just trying to get in, and preferably armed to call it "life threatening". Short of this. There will be an inquiry.

By present Michigan statutes, unless someone is IN your home, a person has to make every reasonable attempt to flee the situation before armed self defense is a (last) option. An exclusion would be finding yourself in the midst of an armed robbery at say a 7-11 or something like this.

Many states have similar statutes but are changing them to "stand your ground and fight back" where it is self defense until clearly proven not.

As things stand, criminals have the legal upper hand 90% of the situations.
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Last edited by Conis on Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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Conis
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are concerned about 2nd amendment rights and issues, I urge you to sign up with this newsgroup: www.ccrkba.org an NRA affiliate.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(This mornings newsletter.)
CITIZENS COMMITTEE FOR THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS

CCRKBA SAYS ILLINOIS LEGISLATURE MAY AS WELL ‘INVITE THE CRIMINALS’

BELLEVUE, WA – After the Illinois State House of Representatives passed out of committee a string of anti-gun bills aimed at further eroding gun rights in the Prairie State, the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (CCRKBA) suggested that Chicago-dominated lawmakers ought to just put out a welcome sign for criminals at the state border.

Anti-gun schemes headed for floor debate include gun rationing, restrictive handgun dealer licensing and a ban on semiautomatic sport-utility rifles. Such a ban could put several Illinois-based firearms manufacturers out of business, or force them to move their businesses to other states.

Lawmakers behind these bills include three Chicago Democrats, Harry Osterman, Edward J. Acevedo and Luis Arroyo, and Oak Park Democrat Deborah L. Graham.

“This kind of nonsense infuriates gun owners,” said CCRKBA Chairman Alan M. Gottlieb. “Lawmakers from Chicago want to export their anti-gun philosophy throughout the state. Of course, it’s pretty clear that Chicago’s gun control policies have been a dismal failure for years.

“Mayor Richard Daley’s puppet lawmakers,” Gottlieb added, “seem to be telling Illinois voters ‘Hey, our ideas haven’t worked in Chicago, so we want them to not work all over the state.’ Their strategy must be to pass laws doomed to failure so that they can come back next year and pass more laws that will fail even more miserably. All the while, they are eroding the rights of law-abiding Illinois gun owners and doing nothing to prevent real criminals from committing more crimes.”

CCRKBA Executive Director Joe Waldron said it is “pretty clear the Daley delegation wants to make the entire state of Illinois a safe haven for thugs” so he proposed a nationwide exchange program.

“If the Chicago crowd doesn’t want guns in their midst,” Waldron said tongue-in-cheek, “they should export their firearms, and the state’s firearms manufacturers, and in turn, all the other states will send their criminals to Chicago. That seems like a fair arrangement.”


-END-
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