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BBI Property Conservation Easement
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Bruce Lord
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AND what John didn't say is the value of all our property will increase over time rather than become just like most of the lakes in MI and all the lakes in IN. It seems alot of you guys are thinking John wants to take away your rights instead of just making people think about what they are about to do to their property that cannot be reversed. I personally am more worried about the beauty of this island being lost than the value of my property going up. But if your out there just trying to sell your land and put up tisky-tack to make money.......well money just isn't that important is it
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Kevin Gibbons
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all if you think that your water front properity will go down in value because you cleared it to the beach so you can see the water, you are all wet. Next I like to set and see the water waves ducks swans geese and sea gulls. also the boats and the freighters. Not some old Spruce tree or cedar tree which is all that grows by the water. If you look from the water and see my house and don't like it I don't really care. Go and look at johns. The lots that are on the black river here are running from 60000.-$80000. that are tree covered. The lots that are cleared are running over $100,000.00 How Come?
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j. munro-duncan
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, the ONE main thing that attracted me to the piece(s) of property that we purchased on the Island over 10 years ago, was the fact that it had not been cleared at all, other than a crude driveway. I would not want a cleared lot, not even if it were half the price of one covered with trees. We were able to gently sculpt our lot before, during, and after construction, carefully taking into consideration which trees, specifically the old growth cedars, should remain to maintain soil and beach berm integrity. We do indeed have a magnificent view of the Straits, boats, freighters, birds, ducks, snakes, you name it. And I can see it from my living room, dining room and even while I'm whipping up a meal in my kitchen! And yet...the strength and beauty of the trees are steadfast from all peripheral views in and out of our cottage. If we were to have bought one of the existing cleared lots on the West End, (which were cleared from lot line to lot line on both sides), we would NEVER, EVER be able to repair, replenish, or replant for the lost beauty in our or our children's lifetimes. John, I get what you're saying. It's a state of mind. . .caring and UNDERSTANDING what we have and how to ensure that my children, my grandchildren, and great grandchildren, (and YOURS!) will be able to enjoy the Island, just as I have and all of my family has for almost 40 years.
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Kevin Gibbons
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoAnn you are not getting what John is saying He doesn't want to be able to see your house from the beech. Don't clear for a view leave the trees . The rest of your family out there can see the lake good are we going to tell anybody else that they are not to cut a tree at all so many feet from high water mark. That is what he wants. You should just buy properity back in the woods and have a trail to the water.
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j. munro-duncan
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the great thing, Kevin! You CAN'T see our cottage from the water!! Come down for a visit this summer! I'll give you a tour! Unless I'm mistaken, John does not want to tell people that they can't cut ANY trees...it's just that he's advocating for property owners/islanders to be very selective and cautious, particularly BEFORE building, in determining which, (NOT ALL) trees be cut for a view of the water. John, please correct and enlighten me further if I missed your point. Those silly ol' cedars aren't just decorative (or a visual nuisance, if you believe that), they serve a very important purpose...keeping our natural shoreline intact.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been refraining from further discussion of this topic. It seems like it is going around in circles, like a scrached up Bobby Vinton 45 rpm record.

First: The idea that we "own" land is something that escapes me. BBI was here before any of us, native americans, dinosaurs etc. Hopefully it will be around long after we are gone. Hopefully it will remain as beautiful as it is now. A "deed" permits us to use this land. It doesn't permit us to do anything we so choose by merit of "ownership". If this were the case, we could build anything we wanted, whereever we wanted, start garbage dumps. Sort of like some of the messes already scattered around the island. The concept of regulated land use, including environmental concerns, has been within my lifetime and is something I personally endorse... having seen the results of unregulated land use.

Second: I don't think many could argue that denuding shorelines of trees and vegitation has created a number of water quality problems. It isn't just the island, it is all of the great lakes, cumulative. This problem has become serious enough that restoration incentives have been enacted in many areas. Michigans inland lakes and rivers have been especially hard hit. Within my lifetime, I have seen Burt-Mullet go from 30% developed to 90+% developed, including fertilized golf course lawns to the waters edge. They were nicer-cleaner lakes 30 years go, than now. I won't bore you alll with what is being done elsewhere, including restrictions and shoreline preservation-restoration.

Someone has to look forward a few generations?

It just might be that the environmental integrity of BBI's shoreline is dependant on the natural forest which extends to the high water mark? If that is preserved, so will be the natural beauty of the island as a secondary benefit. This may require some compromises and rethinking of what is important in the long term, compared to what may satisfy the tastes/ideals of a temporary "landowner".

In Johns defense: I don't read that he is opposed to all "tree cutting", if he is, then that his thing and satisfies his personal tastes. I intrepret John's message as HEADS UP. Priorities are changing with updated land use ethics... which consider TOTAL environmental impact. Alteration to the shore's tree line is something to be done with consideration and forethought. Changes are not quickly reversable.

Zoning is enacted for the greater good of all, long term. (in theory).

What is the vision of BBI 20-40 years from now? One big waterfront subdivision from West to east with all the natural shoreline stripped and replaced by mega cottages with golf course lawns? Kind of Like Burt-Mullet lakes have become over the last three decades?

I don't see a lot of right-wrong to this discussion. More a matter of concensus priorities and preservation of what's left. I believe it is possible to have the best of both.

It is easier to remove it, than put it back.
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Kevin Gibbons
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John was talking about greenbelts that is NO CUTTING not well i will cut this one and leave this one. Also in this case if a tree falls down you can not clean it up or touch it. And if you need to cut a tree who polices it? And how much is the special permitt Oh and how far does the person policeing it have to travel and maybe you will get the permitt depends on how much you are willing to pay for the (permitt). You don't get to say this is the way I thought it was suppose to be. If you follow the greenbelts law you can't do anything with the properity including if a tree falls on your house you can't touch it or remove it without a permitt. Which will cost WHAT?
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Conis
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This subject was moved from this thread once, already.

Shoreline preservation topic. over 6 pages, pretty well run in the dirt with everyone defining everything...

http://www.bois-blanc.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1219

If you want to keep it going, that is the place.

10q
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Squeaky
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get a permit to cut a tree that has fallen on your house? That is a bit much! Going to far....
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Kevin Gibbons
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Kevin, thanks for trying to tell everyone what I'm advocating. Perhaps if you read my posts more carefully, you could be a little more accurate.

Quote:
Here's your quote:

Next I like to set and see the water waves ducks swans geese and sea gulls. also the boats and the freighters. Not some old Spruce tree or cedar tree which is all that grows by the water. If you look from the water and see my house and don't like it I don't really care.


The only difference between you and me, Kevin, is I do care...I care about what my neighbors see...I care about what my friends see...I care about what my Son, Daughter, grandchildren see... I care about the "Old Spruce Tree or Old Cedar Tree...I care about the natural beauty that disappears every year because too many people just don't care. They don't seem to fully appreciate the RARE, UNIQUE, VALUABLE, BEAUTY of this island edge. Your thinking is Precisely why this township needs to protect the lands edge...Now.

Here's a question I am posing to all township officials:

Beyond zoning laws and building codes, what preservation ordinances has the township commission enacted?

Is it None? If it is, I would be ashamed and embarassed to say "I'm a township official and I am doing NOTHING to preserve this island." I believe every township adds overlays to maintain natural or historical assets. Is Bois Blanc Island unique? Where else can you find endless shores surrounded by "old cedars, old spruce trees, serpentine gravel berms, wetlands, and gravel shores?

Any further comment by me will show up at the shoreline thread.
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Dan Reynolds
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentle and thoughtful action will serve relationships between people as well as it serves the land.

Speaking loudly makes enemies, no matter how just the cause for which we speak.

Everything has a natural path. It's as true of humans and human interaction as it is of trees and wildlife. We can't force people to see things our way; trying to do so will only tear down our relationships. And people need each other as much as they need the land around them.

We can try to force the land to be the way we want it as well, but if it's done carelessly - without consideration - we're just tearing down again.

Call it 'environmentalist PR'. The message will carry far greater impact if it is delivered with careful consideration of the audience. Most folks don't want to be told what to do with the land they've worked so hard to afford and finally enjoy. If they preserve trees and shoreline, they want it to be because that's what THEY wanted, not because someone told them to do so. If they don't, perhaps it's because they are oblivious to the fact that other people have to live in the same world they do.

Now we are back to that human interaction thing. Maybe the key message is about people, not land. Food for thought?

There is a harmonious balance between doing right by nature, and doing right by our fellow human beings.

And we're also back to the existential dilemma of land ownership. Some would say no one can 'own' land, but we all must care about it. The deal is, ownership is often the best way we have of protecting it. Restrictions are clumsy by nature (no pun intended - or, maybe it was). They end up creating the very outcome they were trying to prevent.

I've had some trees removed from my place. They were dying, dead and/or threatening power lines and my building. I leave every tree I can. So I don't think I am 'the problem', as it were. But with every new restriction comes another hurdle I have to overcome, just to accomplish some common-sense thing in the process of enjoying the place. More restrictions mean less freedom. Pretty soon, I stop caring about the land - I stop "taking ownership" in it - because regulatory officials are doing it for me. At that point, I might as well be staying at the KOA.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan gets an A+. Laughing

Change takes time. Ethical and environmental issues require understanding via education and insight. Most often, an "education" stems from mistakes made in the past. Some sense an urgency to not repeat those mistakes since they are more easily prevented than corrected?

If "common sense" prevailed, the entire planet would live in perfect harmony. It doesn't. (Leave this book for another time!)

No one wants more and more restrictions! As stated earlier/elsewhere, the concept of a shoreline "overlay" (I am NOT using the greenbelt word) is difficult if not impossible to enforce. Enforced by who? When? And there is always a workaround. If anything, such an "overlay" is little more than a statement defining shoreline preservation goals... a guideline. Perhaps, eventually, accepted as status quo?

It took 30 years for the wild-scenic rivers act to be come accepted. As a result, many of Michigans pristene rivers have been saved from overdevelopment and environmental destruction. As a net result, those rivers are considered "premium" as compared to others, overlooked. I see a parallel between preserved rivers and a preserved island.

Doesn't this about sum it up?

To continue this discussion, please move to the shoreline preservation thread. http://www.bois-blanc.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1219
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