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BBI Pond Monster

 
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:53 pm    Post subject: BBI Pond Monster Reply with quote

In May I was out in the middle of a swamp stalking flowers. There was a shallow pond there. The water was only about 2 or 3 inches deep with this white colored bottom. On the bottom crawling along was this THING. It has a tail and flippers. Would anyone have any idea what it is? I kind of like the name BBI Pond Monster though.

http://www.bois-blanc.com/phpBB2/album_page.php?pic_id=2162
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djhitz
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:31 pm    Post subject: Mud Puppy. Reply with quote

Very Happy You sir had a very rare sighting of a "Mud Puppy". Definately a Michigan resident. These large salamanders estivate deep down in the pond mud for the winter. See: http://herpicenter.ipfw.edu/outreach/accounts/amphibians/salamadres/Mudpuppy_waterdog/index.htm&2
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djhitz
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:39 pm    Post subject: Mud Puppy Reply with quote

www.michigan-sportsman.com/.../539/Mudpuppy.jpg
Mud Puppy on ice.
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:41 am    Post subject: monster Reply with quote

As mentioned below the picture, the monster was about 2 1/2 or 3 inches long. It is not spotted like a mud puppy. I saw no neck or external gills like a mud puppy. The tail thingy may be a [reproduction device]. The body has horizontal banding making it look somewhat segmented. In comparing it to many pictures of mud puppy's I ruled them out.

The body didn't appear boney, but soft like it had no skeleton.
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KELLY
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, I email this link to some Biologists at Grand Valley State to see if they knew what it is.
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Ron Petersen
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike - I may be way off base, but for some reason I thought I saw a picture of something like this once and it was a larval stage of some insect - can't remember what it was!!
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djhitz
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:28 pm    Post subject: Beetle Larvae? Reply with quote

At first glance it lo Shocked oked like a salamander. Try this: http://pestcontrolcanada.com/Question/pond%20creature.jpg #438. Less the fins out of water. Ponds are neat! What's the white stuff?
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJH

For some reason I can not get any of your sites to come up.. is it just me I wonder ?
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Conis
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting critter.

I have seen "mud pupples" in the southern Michigan lakes. Been a while but I recall them looking much different then your pictures.

Black, back not segmented, feet, gills and much larger. Typically 8-12" long. ]

I just googled "mud puppy" and clicked on images. I see there are numerous color variations and species. Likely what it was... small one. Read they don't reach maturity until 5 years, can grow to 17".

If provoked, they can leap out of the water and will go for the throat!
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:58 am    Post subject: links Reply with quote

Theeislandgirl, I can't get though on those links either, so you are not alone.

If this monster is a larva, it sure is a big one. Bruce McAfee and I once found a pond in the fall full of bullfrog tadpoles (or whatever you call them) and they were really big like this. Remember, I took the pictures in May, so whatever this thing is, may have overwintered in the mud.

This pond dries up in the summer. The white stuff is a coating on the surface of the bottom mud. It may be lime making this hard water.
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KELLY
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, here is what the Biologist thinks.


Eric Snyder 7/1/2008 10:47 AM >>>
http://www2.waterbugkey.vcsu.edu/php/pics/elimidae_larvae_cint.jpg

I think you've got an aquatic insect larvae. How big? I've pasted a link above for a beatle larvae that looks similar... Could also be any number of diptera larvae. Eric Snyder


------------
Eric B. Snyder, PhD
Assistant Professor - Biology
207 Henry Hall
Grand Valley State University
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:28 pm    Post subject: Size Reply with quote

Like they say - Size matters!

The monster was 2.5 to 3 inches. What size is the larva pictured? It sure looks a lot more like what I saw. The thing I saw didn't have a hook thingy on the end of it's tail that I could see anyway. It is hard to tell about the clawed feet. They could have been down in the mud. It actually looked more like fins that are on the bottom of fish. Like stubs.

We may never know exactly what it is, but beware, there are little monsters out there in the ponds of BBI. I think I'll Google the word diptera.
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KELLY
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the guys name, email etc if you have any other questions.
Eric B. Snyder, PhD
Assistant Professor - Biology
207 Henry Hall
Grand Valley State University
Allendale, MI 49401
phone: 616-331-2417
fax: 616-331-3446
biodept@gvsu.edu
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:20 pm    Post subject: Thanks Reply with quote

Thanks for your help. I thinks it is a big larva of some kind. I just now sent the picture to a neat site called WHAT'S THAT BUG. Maybe they can find exactly what insect it turns into. I'm sure the girls will be interested in seeing a rat tailed maggot on that site.

http://www.whatsthatbug.com/maggots.html

From what I've read the things breath through their tails and that is what the monster appears to be doing in the top picture.
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djhitz
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:05 pm    Post subject: Water Tiger or Water Dragon. Reply with quote

Hi Mike and Kelly. Ya, I know I can't bring those sights up either but enter in your browser again: http://pestcontrolcanada.com this link should work and go to picture #438. It has more of the color of Mike's creature but the specimen in the photo is out of water so fins aren't evident.
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boy Oh Boy. I think we are getting closer. The creature you found looks a lot closer to what I saw. The tail part is very close. The little monster I saw didn't bulge out at the head end though.

Here is a link to another picture of a diving beetle larva:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://k53.pbase.com/u13/dannyshoots/large/19993164.PredDivBetLarvae.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.pbase.com/dannyshoots/image/19993164&h=550&w=800&sz=49&hl=en&start=129&tbnid=eXTVVOqp-qS9PM:&tbnh=98&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3Daquatic%2Blarvae%26start%3D120%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN
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Ron Petersen
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Mike - I wasn't off track - I just couldn't remember what it was - I have seen them down here and looked it up once - long time ago!!
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JMK
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:33 am    Post subject: pond monster Reply with quote

Looks like a sculpin.

www.thejump.net/id/more-fish/mottled-sculpin.jpg
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I compared the two pictures and yes the shape is a lot alike. The little pond monster did not have any dorsel fins though. It also had no gills that I could see.

I haven't gotten any response from whatsthatbug. Crying or Very sad
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ttfn
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Mike, I saw some things like that in a pond off the beach on the east end of the island. They were about 3 inches long, had what looked like small front and back legs. It did not appear to have fins either. We saw several of them but were unable to catch them with a net to look at them close up. They did look like something in an infancy stage. It will be interesting to find out what they are!
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been googling "aquatic larva" and have seen a lot of pictures, but no success yet. There are many kinds of those little pond monsters. Some are not so little.
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:43 am    Post subject: guide Reply with quote

I ran across a very interesting site that has pictures of a bunch of aquatic invertabrates. That is science speak for little pond monsters. Scroll down the page and you can see chapters of the book in .pdf format.

http://wrc.umn.edu/outreach/vsmp/edmaterials/

I just found this and am now searching through the pictures.
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:32 am    Post subject: Close Reply with quote

As close as I can get so far is that it is some species of Phantom Crane Fly. Look under true flys, Diptera. Then Ptychopteridae in chapter 13.

I read that some species can get up to 40 mm long, that is a little over 1 and 1/2 inches.
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ashleygask
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that it may be a red-tailed maggot fly. I read that it can be up to two inches long. I couldn't really see your photo very well.

http:/weloveteaching.com/hopepond/macrobug/macrobug.htm

look here and compair.
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:22 am    Post subject: Drone fly larvae Reply with quote

First, as mentioned earlier, the camera focused on the surface of the water about an inch above the monster. I am sorry that I couldn't get a clearer shot.

A drone fly larvae or maggot is called a rat-tailed maggot. I think whoever typed up that page slipped up.

The rat-tailed maggot has prolegs along the full lenghth of it's belly and has a tail as long or longer then it's body. The little monster had a tail shorter then it's body and the prolegs were anterior only ( in front), that I could see anyway. That is why I have ruled out rat-tailed maggots.

The phantom crane fly family has larvae that have prolegs in front only and have a breathing tube tail that is shorter then their body. The picture of the little monster compared to what is on the internet comes close, but are not an exact match though. So, keep looking, I am.

Kelly put me on the trail to this really good site.

http://www.waterbugkey.vcsu.edu/
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