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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:08 am    Post subject: Conis for BBI political post Reply with quote

I'm with you, Rosemary. Conis loves to be in the cross hairs.

The "Ditches to Nowhere" $30,000 channeled into one persons pocket and was authorized by the island "good fellas". Everyone knows my feelings on this idiotic waste of money.

Non-homestead island properties pay a higher milliage tax rate than island homestead properties. Someone explain that one to me, a non-homestead property owner.

Oh, yeah, the island politics could get real interesting if we dug into that hornet nest.

And perhaps we could talk about freedom, our personal right to purchase food from whoever we feel like. This pertains to the family "expelled" from BBI for code violations and selling chickens, eggs, and other food to island residents, without a license, without "governmental approval". Why do Free Americans have to have government agencies decide for me what I can or cannot buy when it comes to what I want to eat?

Thought I'd try to encourage a new, local conversation. Oh, lets leave religion out of it, if possible. God had nothing to do with the "Ditches to Nowhere."
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3 putt
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about the proposed new multi million dollar ferry dock and welcomeing center the good ol boys are pushing threw without the ok from the homeowners and summer residents..You think your taxes are being raised for bad reasons now, wait till that happens. What about the new cop truck and officer that we didnt need but for some reason we all paid for. (Beaver island...one officer, one vehicle, 500 hundred full time residents. 3 to 5 thousand residents during the summer) I think one more officer and another vehicle and a police chopper, and well all be really safe...What about the dock we have now on our side that isnt deep enough and needs attention way before anything.
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Rich
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I'll bite. Why are property taxes higher for non homestead residents?
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3 putt
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the ballot in the last non-presidental vote here on the island the residents voted to raise the non-residents taxes to cover a raise in the school millage. John Elmer Engel has a copy of the letter sent around to the residents explaining only the non-residents taxes would go up if you voted yes on the increase.
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:18 pm    Post subject: Island Issues Reply with quote

Good point, 3 putt. I forgot about that "totally, unnecessary, unwanted, and unwarranted" new ferry site. Perhaps a "bailout" could be secured for that.

Two new sheriff trucks, another deputy for what...30 +/- full time residents?

Recently, here in Bay City, a resident obtained the tax codes of 320 citizens that would be affected by a drain commission petition for "improvements". We wrote letters, printed out envelopes, paid $130 postage, and mailed them to every citizen making them aware of the "tax screwing" they would take if this project was approved. 20 chairs were set up for the "rubber stamp" public meeting. Over 100 residents crammed into the hall, loudly voiced their oppostition, and lo and behold, the two drain commissioners voted against it!! They had to with that many outspoken citizens. We were shocked. The Bay county commissioner tried to threaten the citizens that if this failed, it would never get done. A bold faced lie!! In one years time, another petition can be circulated and the meeting held again.

If the sheeple do nothing, government will force their medicine on you like it or not. They will rob you to pay their cronies, like it or not.
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:44 pm    Post subject: Taxes Reply with quote

Here in Texas you can only have one home ..homesteaded ..the one you live in and when you get to your 66th birthday your taxes will stay at what ever price that it is at .at that time ..they will never be lower or higher even if the tax goes up or down.

The first year we lived in this home we went to city hall and had our taxes lowerd ...... the guy next door told my hubby the other day his tax went down this year ... so we will once again try to get them lower again ..my hubby will be retiring soon so we want to get them as low as we can ..

In alaska when you turn I believe 62 or 65 you no longer pay taxes on your home ..

I remember when we had alot of freedom on the island .. yes some of the laws should be in place but like you John I do not believe that selling food is one of them .. I remember my father -in law sold his chicken eggs and there was a long line of people wanting for them .. when I left the island and went to Alaska i was so spoiled with the fresh eggs ..it was hard to eat them up there ..they were terrible AND the chicken meat in the stores there .. later we found a few people that sold eggs, chicken and fresh milk .. the milk was a dollar a gallon and very tasty ..the kids loved it ..
I fear that someday the island will only be for the wealthy .. like over to Mac island .. the Indians on the hill there had to leave ..the wealthy moved in and they could not afford to stay ..
It is happening there on our island right now ... no out houses ... and ect.

I support the rules ( i think .. i do not know all of them ) in the pines where my family lives but there should be a line where the laws changes where you can have cattle horses chickens and others so we could live off the land there if need be or if we had too ..
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doug miller
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are the ditches to nowhere discussed somewhere else? If not, what exactly are they and what is their story?

In Michigan, you get an 18 mill reduction on a home you own if it is your "principal residence" (they used to call it your homestead). You can only have 1 principal residence for purposes of the 18 mill reduction. And in fact, if you have another house in a state that has a similar type of property tax exemption that you claim as your homestead or principal residence in that state, you cannot claim the Michigan exemption. Also, a husband and wife who file their income tax returns jointly can only claim one exemption--that is, one can't claim their house and the other claim their cottage.

We got the reduction back in about 1994 in exchange for the 2% increase (to 6%) in the sales and use taxes.

And 3Putt, do you have more info on that tax increase for the non-residents only? Thanks.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doug,
I'll try and find the letter we were sent during the summer and post it so everyone can read it. I found it hard to believe that the full time residents got to vote to raise your taxes and yours only. (non-residents)
I know nothing about how the road commision decides where or what to spend money on or repairs needed. Question
John Engles do you still have the letter sent to the residents? If not let me know and I'll do some research. 20 and sunny here on the rock today.. About a foot of snow after the rain still remains. That big snow storm missed us. Looking forward to seeing all of you comeing over on the ice soon. The ice was all the way across a few days ago, but I heard theres open water once again.
Hopefully we will see a solid bridge within a couple of weeks.
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doug miller
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, 3Putt.

I have not looked into it, but it does seem problematic that you can own property in a particular place, pay taxes on that property, but have no ability to vote or make a difference concerning those taxes.

I suppose the problem is a practical one. That is, if your principal home is in one place in Michigan, and you vote their in not only the national and state elections but the local elections, it might be confusing to allow you to vote at the place you have your cottage. Maybe it would allow you to vote for the Prez and others twice (hmmm!). But it sure seems like there should be some way to have formal input on matters concerning our island property.
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:05 pm    Post subject: Island issues Reply with quote

3putt: you know how it goes. I finally clean out a drawer, tell myself that I will never need that info anymore, recycle it, and sure enough, time comes and I need it. Perhaps our Township officials could voluntarily post it since a request has been made by Doug Miller and now, me, John Engel, even though we are NON-residents.

Here's Problematic, Doug: If Shelby and crew somehow scam this property in Cheboygan, cost in the Millions, build some kind of structure for showering, overnight stays, etc., parking area, and of course a ferry service and launch site...and I and every other non-homestead property owner have to subsidize it...that's problematic.

DTN (Ditches To Nowhere). Doug, since you do not travel east from the dock, you will not see these pointless trenches. $10 grand allocated by BBI, $10 Grand allocated by Mackinaw County Road Commission, and $10 Grand of matching funds? was earmarked at the request of Joe Schlund and others. Joe Schlund, of course, was awarded the work...no one else could bid on it. This money was awarded to Joe as special projects and was above his salary...AS I BEST UNDERSTAND. These ditches exist where water stands ONLY in the very wettest of water events...for a week or two during spring melt off and/or with a rain event. I've got photos (bbi album) of 2008 spring which was the wettest I have ever seen in 17 years. And even with all of this water in 2008, the road was passable and not completely covered...I walked it, biked it, and drove over it. Last spring, 2007, there was no such water events that caused the water to sit at the edges of the road...I have photos of that year too.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doug I cant find our copy... John dog gon you!!! Someone must still have it. Cheryl at the city office has a copy she can post I'm sure of it.
Doug just for laughs I dont think double voteing for your guy would of helped anyways Laughing (totally just kidding) Have a great day
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John, I totally agree. You canít possibly be saying that $30,000.00 was spent on those ditches. If thatís true, itís criminal. I suppose the guard rails that will be needed to prevent a potential lawsuit will cost another $60,000 to $100,000. Oh, I forgot, they must have spent another $10,000 on the beautiful yellow caution sticks.
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doug miller
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I can understand how the island residents could vote to increase the millage to pay for some project, I am surprised to hear that they can only levy that amount on the non residents. I know there is a difference between a tax and a special assessment. I think a special assessment can be billed to just those who benefit from the project for which the money is being assessed. But I think a tax must be levied uniformly and that it would apply to everyone who owned property in the township.

I am going to do a bit of homework and see if I can figure out the rules that apply.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doug call the township hall and get a copy of the letter before you quote me on the specifics of it I thought it was rather strange myself.
I'm gonna get skinned alive for this, but I think transparency is the word were all looking for here. Thanks
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gene pluhar
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3 putt thank you for looking in to this, i agree transpercy is critical to the health of the island and all its residence! good job!
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:41 pm    Post subject: Transparency Reply with quote

3 Putt: "they" are already skinning you, tax-tually speaking! Rolling Eyes
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:38 am    Post subject: Skinning Reply with quote

I was the hired hand for the school district for a number of years. My job was to do all accounting for the district. So, I can say that I know something about taxes to fund the school.

First and foremost, School districts do not make up the laws that govern them. The State totally controls how schools are funded. The districts used to have a little control, but Proposal A shifted all control to the state.
The State School Aid Act spells out exactly how the district will be funded. See Sec. 20(9) and Sec. 20(16).

Secondly, before you all complain too much, I want you all to know that the local revenue levied on non-homesteads, is the lowest in the state here on BBI. I believe that the levy is now under 4.1 mills or is 4.1. Most districts are required by state law to levy way more then that. Many levy 18 mills on the non-homestead folks.

Yes, the non-homesteaders, the ones who can't vote, are taxed to get local funding for the school. Every few years it expires and so it must be renewed. That is what the letter was about.

If the local homesteaders rebel and vote down the taxes on the non-homesteaders, the school would close. The state forces a combining of districts in three years. The local revenue millage would then be that of some other district. Remember all other districts have a higher millage.

So, the end result, without a school on the island, is higher taxes on the non-homestead tax payers at least. So you get no school for more taxes.

I haven't been involved in the accounting for a few years, so things might have changed a little. The school district budget is posted all around the island for everyone to read. I took a quick look at the one hanging at the post office. What follows appears to be what is happening.

Total revenue is a combination of state and local revenue. It appears that the local revenue exceeds the amount the state will allow the district to have. Therefore, the state's share will be zero. The state "aid" comes from 6 mills that is levied on both non-homesteaders and homesteaders on BBI. At this time, all that money goes to the state and never comes back.

As I previously mentioned, it appears that the local revenue exceeds what the state allows for total revenue, so the district may be levying less then the 4.1 mills it normally levies to reduce revenue to the amount the state will allow. I hope someone on the school board can confirm or deny this.

I hope I haven't confused everyone with details. For me, this is sketchy and lacks all detail and I am trying to keep it simple

The bottom line - blame the state.
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doug miller
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Mike. That was very helpful.

Yes, I forgot that, while most school districts cost their non-homesteading taxpayers 18 mills, one of the great things about being a non-homesteader on BBI is that we only pay 4 mills. Which is why, as I understand it, we have a tremendous incentive to keep the school open. Otherwise--and I don't know how this works, we non-homestead BBI property owners could pay 18 mills and BBI would be part of another school system (Cheboygan, I thought I was told).

And, as you said Mike, state law requires that the school millage amount--the 4 mills or so in BBI's case, has to be renewed every once in a while. The problem is that the renewal is sometimes understood by people to be a new tax or an increase in the number of mills. I can't tell if that 4 mill amount was simply renewed or if it was increased. But a quick call to the Township Hall would clear that up.

Finally, Mike, I guess that explains how the non-homestead folks could have an increase and not the homestead folks. That is, since those who claim their house on the island as their principal residence don't pay the 4 mills for schools, an increase in that amount would not impact them.

The only thing I don't understand is this: I think that an increase in the 4 mills could only be to pay for school-related purposes and not for ditches, docks or any other non-school purpose. But I am not sure.
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:05 am    Post subject: Millage tax Reply with quote

Thanks, Mike, for that very clear explanation. Like Doug said, it is in our best interest to keep the school open and keep the 4.1 millage level. I, for one, definitely do not want to have to pay the higher rate of another district, such as Cheboygans or St. Ignace.

It still is a curiosity that I have no control over my non-homestead taxes but that's the states' fault and not BBI. Right?

Again, Mike, Thanks.
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KELLY
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"""" This pertains to the family "expelled" from BBI for code violations and selling chickens, eggs, and other food to island residents, without a license, without "governmental approval". Why do Free Americans have to have government agencies decide for me what I can or cannot buy when it comes to what I want to eat? """""



Did this really happen? Did someone get expelled form the island? Or is this a joke? Please explain
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Ron Petersen
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kelly - I remember this episode and always wonderd how and why this happened - my question was always, is it anymore illegal to sell goods without a license than it is to buy them from them knowing they don't have a license - Cripes - we have people selling eggs, chickens, vegetables, beef, pork, etc all over down here privately and at farmers markets and advertise it in the local papers - they are not licensed Confused

I think there was more to it than just this.
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Dan Reynolds
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, there was much more to it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Item 1: I buy eggs, chickens, butchered meat from the Amish (locally) quite frequently. Should I wear a straw hat when I buy?

#2: If you want to gripe about taxes in BBI twp, Try Cheboygan country out for size, some time. OUTRAGEOUS!

#3 Go back 2-3 years in thiss site archives. There was some posted discussion about (forgot their name) family from several perspectives, including theri farm animals.
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:12 pm    Post subject: Expelled Reply with quote

Their name was "Stith", I think. They had livestock. Strike one. They built outbuildings without building permits. Strike two. They sold food w/out a license. Strike three, your out. So much for their paradise.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found this:


Stitts Move Animals to Safety as Contempt Trial Draws Near Family That Prepared for Y2K to Be Broken Up Sept 10.

Bois Blanc Island, MI (August 31) - A sad spectacle was played out today in Autumn-like weather as Michael and Christine Stitt ferried their animals from Bois Blanc Island to foster care on the mainland near Cheboygan.

With only days to go before facing civil contempt charges, and their likely imprisonment as proposed by Lyle Peck, Attorney for the Township that has persecuted the family, the Stitts are hurriedly doing what they can to safeguard the animals.

"These animals are life to us. The goat gives its milk for our little Ruth Ann and the chickens feed my children. They are what we depend on to get us through the winter. I don't know what we will do without them," said Christine during an interview today with one of the many journalists who have contacted them.

Mike and Christine own 37 acres of wilderness land on Bois Blanc Island in Northern Lake Huron. When they came to the island nearly 5 years ago, the township board welcomed the family, which now numbers 8 souls, and their animals. In August of 1997 the township zoning board even granted approval for the animals but asked that Mike buy permits to build the barns that housed them. It was then that trouble started to happen. The township was never satisfied with what Mike did and repeatedly condemned and "redtagged" the buildings as they were constructed. Mike is a barn builder by trade and his structures exceed local codes, but Mike feels that since he has a farm and agriculture, that permits and inspections aren't necessary and the zoning and building inspector would not allow him to continue improving his own property. The laws of Michigan agree. Nevertheless, the 37 acre piece of prime real estate is zoned residential and it was decided by the zoning board that the animals and a large garden, once permitted, are no longer allowed.

In July of 1999, the Township had the Stitts in court for zoning violations. In an agreement that the Stitts claim was fraudulently executed by lawyers without their knowledge or signatures, the court ordered the entire farm to be disposed of by October 7, 1999 with every building, piece of equipment, and every animal removed and even the ground swept clean of seeds, feed, and manure.

The Stitts could not comply with the short time and sought relief by posting "Waiver of Torte" notices, essentially declaring that the court proceedings were illegal and fraudulent. The Stitts would not comply with the October 7 deadline. In an act of reprisal, the Township Board directed Lawyer Peck to obtain a subpoena for Mike and Christine to defend themselves in the Mackinaw County District Court on September 10, against charges of civil contempt.

In a brief written for the court, Lawyer Peck demands that the Mike and Christine be jailed for 30 days and fined $500 as punitive action for their contempt. If jailed, the Stitts most assuredly cannot meet the original Oct 7 deadline. Moreover, after October 8, more jail time and fines will be imposed.

Last week, it was disclosed that the land the Stitts own could be worth 2 million dollars when subdivided. Since the Stitts cannot comply with the court's order to cleanse the land and return it to its original pristine condition, the job to do so will likely fall to the township. The contract to clean up the Stitt property will be given to Island Contractors, owned by the husband of Clover Schlund, the clerk of the township and the chief antagonist against the Stitts. The estimated cost of cleanup will be far greater than the Stitts can pay. The land will be confiscated in lieu of payment. The township will enrich itself by obtaining the 37 acre property from the Stitts and ridding themselves of the Stitt family by this means.

Within the next few days, stories of this travesty of justice and the corruption will hit national news services. Journalists from around America have contacted the Stitts and the radio talk shows have invited Christine to tell the tale of greed and avarice by the gang of pirates posing as a township board.

But sadly, nothing can stop Mike and Christine from doing what they must do now to save the animals. With Chad and Michael Junior's help, the animals are taken away from the farm where the Stitts loved and cared for them. On September 10, as Mike and Christine are taken to jail, other occupants of the property will be taken away, this time the six children. And then the buildings will be bulldozed and the house demolished and burned and nothing will remain but the memories, the newspaper stories, and the tears.

END PRESS RELEASE
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