Home The Bois Blanc Island Site
An interactive site for islanders and island lovers
 
 Home  ::  Forum  ::  Album  ::   Calendar  ::  Memberlist  ::  Usergroups  ::  Register 
 Profile  :: FAQ  ::  Search  ::  Log in to check your private messages  ::  Log in 

health care reform
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Bois Blanc Island Site Forum Index -> BBI TOWN HALL
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Kevin Gibbons
Resident Royalty
Resident Royalty


Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 924
Location: cheboygan, mi

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:06 pm    Post subject: health care reform Reply with quote

What does everyone think about health care reform?
_________________
kevin gibbons
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Squeaky
Resident Royalty
Resident Royalty


Joined: 15 Dec 2002
Posts: 650
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Health Care Reform?????

Find a way to cover everyone as long has whatever is in the making will not affect us that already have health insurance. We are already paying and the cost we now have to pay for office calls, meds, etc. has gone up big time. We do not need any more costs added to us in taxes, etc. Let everyone pay their way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rich
Bois & Grills Club
Bois & Grills Club


Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Waterford, WI

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We should make it affordable first, then find a way to cover everyone. Penalizing people for not having or offering overpriced healthcare is only going to add to foreclosures, bankruptsies, unemployment rates and business closings.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Uncle Steve
$$ Site Donor $$
$$ Site Donor $$


Joined: 13 Dec 2002
Posts: 389
Location: Big Rapids, MI and Eagle Ridge AKA Red Roof Inn (2006) ... East end BBI

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twisted Evil Tort Reform, Cost Control by the free market system, and inter state health insurance reform would be very big first steps.. But what do I know, I have been a Health Care Academic for 30 plus years. Laughing
_________________
" Luck doesn't just happen, we work for it "

Uncle Steve
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Familyman
We Wanna Stay!
We Wanna Stay!


Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 251
Location: Rochester Hills, MI

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ditto Uncle Steve.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mikewhite
Resident Royalty
Resident Royalty


Joined: 01 Jan 2003
Posts: 1404
Location: Sand Bay

PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:20 am    Post subject: Ultimate Reply with quote

I suppose the ultimate way to reduce costs would be health care without insurance companies at all. Cash up front for health care. If you can't pay, you can't play. The ultimate capitalist system. So many could not pay, that the medical system would have to bring down the cost of care to get enough customers to stay in business. Good old supply and demand.

A big plus for all you hard core conservatives, is that a lot of the people who are taking advantage of the health care system, would not be able to do that any more. Many would die. Those who are really hard workers, but have fallen on hard luck, would be in the same boat. Many would die.

That would get rid of that burden. The conservatives would have no one to complain about then. Survival of the fittest and the richest would return.
_________________
mwhite@wildblue.net
"The more nature you keep, the more nature you'll enjoy." and "It's not who is right, but what is right."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Squeaky
Resident Royalty
Resident Royalty


Joined: 15 Dec 2002
Posts: 650
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about those that HAVE BEEN HARD WORKERS and HAVE BEEN PROMISED HEALTH CARE? Those that are now retired from working 30 plus years? And those that can not afford insurance? Many would die? You have got to be kidding...... WE should just sit back and keep our mouths shut? There are many taking advantage of the health care system and not just conservatives. And you know that too. This has everything to do with this country and its people. Everyone should be thinking and worrying about what is in store for all of us. We should all stand up and demand what is best for all. Do you not wonder as to the quality of health care you may or may not have down the road? There is talk about cuts in Medicare and Medicaid too. And there are alot of us in this baby boomer generation. What is ahead for us? I whole heartedly believe this is the biggest concern to our government. How in the world will they be able to afford us? As you say, the strong will survive and the weak shall die? Yikes!

Are we not all in this together and should we not want to also look out for our neighbors? Everyone is entitled to the best health care available.. And not cost us our lives or cost us so much that we will have no life.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Familyman
We Wanna Stay!
We Wanna Stay!


Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 251
Location: Rochester Hills, MI

PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To all you conservatives out there. IT'S HOPELESS.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kevin Gibbons
Resident Royalty
Resident Royalty


Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 924
Location: cheboygan, mi

PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All of you that think you have good ins you better check. My wife and I have had 100 % blue cross for years. But lately we found out it wouldn't cover the shots that she needs 4 times a week. $1700. a shot. They have cut out these drugs and they keep cutting out more. I'm lucky on one hand my ins is paid for by the union. On the other hand the ins company's keep raising ins and not taking ins for class 4 medication. So don't get real sick because you will find out the ins will not cover. This reform is not just for the ones without ins, It is also for us with ins. Also for the ones that have ins on there own and the rate keeps increasing. If you all think that ins companys are on your side and are helping you, then you just have fun with that. I will stop there.
_________________
kevin gibbons
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Rich
Bois & Grills Club
Bois & Grills Club


Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Waterford, WI

PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We should all pay the same rate. Young or old, sick or healthy, working or not working. Insurance is a way of sharing liability with a group, so why do we allow these companies to turn on us if we get sick or old?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mikewhite
Resident Royalty
Resident Royalty


Joined: 01 Jan 2003
Posts: 1404
Location: Sand Bay

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:07 am    Post subject: service? Reply with quote

Insurance companies are businesses, mostly corporations. The people they serve are not the sick. They serve the stock holders or owners of the company. Just as Georgia-Pacific might shrink the size of a roll of toilet paper to make more profit, so do insurance companies look for ways to make more profit. It is business. But, we can chose to change to another competing brand of toilet paper. With insurance companies, unless you can afford to get your own, you are locked in to one company not of your choosing. Those corporations know that and can take advantage for their stockholders and owners. It is business.

Now, there are those that say this is the way it should be. I think something should change.

I see that Rich has a suggestion of what he would like to see, but no way to do it. Any other suggestions?
_________________
mwhite@wildblue.net
"The more nature you keep, the more nature you'll enjoy." and "It's not who is right, but what is right."


Last edited by mikewhite on Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:51 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
West End Piper
Pines Paramour
Pines Paramour


Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 392
Location: Sterling Heights/Lime Kiln Point

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhh yes.....tort reform. Always one of the first things that conservatives like to bring up. Apparently, they have not been paying attention, after independent group, after group ranks lawsuits amongst the most insignificant factors contributing to health care cost. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 1-2%. So, for 1-2% we should tie the hands of the person who has their left leg amputated by accident, or the person who's mother is given 100X the normal dose of a drug, ending her life........... All in the name of limiting liability for doctors. Find a new argument boys. It's the insurance companies trying to scapegoat the lawyers.......Hello?..........
_________________
West End Piper
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
doug miller
Resident Royalty
Resident Royalty


Joined: 03 Dec 2002
Posts: 539

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin:

Sounds like you are itching for a fight!! I love that open-ended question, as if you are saying, cold weather is coming and its time to stop vacationing and start debating.

What a confusing, complicated mess the health care system and talk of reforming it is. But one fact at the heart of it all is that our expectations about what the health care system should provide are far different than what we expected not that long ago.

Need a new knee? Not so long ago, the answer was a couple of aspirin for the pain. Health care cost--a few pennies. Now, in addition to expensive new pain relievers, you might try a fancy brace (expensive) or have the knee scoped (even more expensive) or a replacement (really expensive). And in some cases you may need another one some years down the road.

Need a new hip or some physical therapy? Same thing.

In addition, there are so many new and different kinds of drugs that people need or want. And think about the various therapies for cancer or heart disease or diabetes. Again, it all costs a great deal of money.

So the bottom line is that one way or the other we need to plan on apportioning an ever greater percentage of our personal finances to health care. Because if there is a way to fix your health, you are going to want to take advantage of it no matter the cost.

It does seem to me that opening up access to health insurance would help a lot. As anyone who collects books or stamps or anything else knows, the internet was not good for them when it came to selling their wares. That is because, pre-internet, if someone was looking for a first edition of a Steven King book from the 80s, they might look around the area rare book shops and check a few catalogs, but it was a real hit or miss affair. Now, you go into a rare books website, punch in the name of the book and you will find, sometimes, hundreds of copies. That has brought the price of rare books down simply because there are so many sellers competing in the marketplace. Seems like health insurance could be the same way if there was real competition.

I have little faith that Congress can fix this problem and think it likely that they will make it much worse. For example, when they tell you that Sen Baucas's bill is gonna cost a trillion dollars over 10 years, do you believe it? In fact, if they estimate one trillion is there any doubt it will be more like 5 or 10 trillion? And when they say it will actually bring down the deficit because, apparently, of cost savings, do you do anything but laugh? Finally, when you consider how undisciplined Congress was when they passed the stimulus bills--throwing money at all of their old, pet projects, do you really think they will exercise discipline now?

And on the issue of health care for illegal immigrants, do you doubt that health care will be provided to illegal immigrants? If health care providers cannot legally request ID from patients, how would they know. And as a practical matter, how will they be able to determine their status anyway? Speaking of that topic, I read that the vast percentage of women having babies in southern CA are illegals who come to the US knowing that if the child is born in the US, the child is an American citizen and will be able to receive all the benefits of that citizenship. I do not blame them for wanting what is best for their children, but is there any doubt that will add a great deal to the cost of health care in the US? That must be a tremendous cost and is no doubt, in part, a reason that CA is in such desperate financial straits.

Concerning tort reform, I agree to some extent with Piper that the amount getting paid out to lawyers and plaintiffs because of tort litigation is not that great when considered in the scheme of things. But the real problem is not what gets paid out; it is the number of tests and procedures and drugs that are prescribed or performed because of concerns over liability. When you see labels on hot coffee that say: Caution, hot beverage, and warnings on knife sets that say: Caution, blades are sharp, it gives you an idea of the fear of lawsuits that is out there. And while a label is cheap, medical procedures and drugs are not. Doctors and other health care providers watch those Sam Bernstein commercials and others too. And they end up practicing defensive medicine, which probably has a huge cost. So some kind of nationwide tort reform would be important to keeping costs down.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Squeaky
Resident Royalty
Resident Royalty


Joined: 15 Dec 2002
Posts: 650
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is worth every MINUTE (ONLY 4) to watch this!


THIS HITS IT OUT OF THE BALL PARK ! AND IT ONLY has HAD 24,048 views

It was taken inside Congress with a Congressman from Michigan.



THIS IS IMPERATIVE EVERYONE SEE THIS!! IT WAS TAKEN OFF THE VIDEO TAPES OF THE FLOOR OF OUR NATIONAL LEGISLATURE.

PLEASE GET THIS OUT TO EVERYONE!!!




http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=G44NCvNDLfc
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BBIBABS
Resident Royalty
Resident Royalty


Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 773
Location: Port Huron Mi

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It only took me 15 seconds to jump on this.
PLEASE READ AND ACT. IT ONLY TAKES 15 SECONDS


Please pass this on!!



On Tuesday, the Senate health committee voted 12-11 in favor of a two-page amendment courtesy of Republican Tom Coburn that would require all Members and their staffs to enroll in any new government-run health plan. It took me less than a minute to sign up to require our congressmen and senators to drink at the same trough! Three cheers for Congressman John Fleming of Louisiana !



Congressman John Fleming ( Louisiana physician) has proposed an amendment that would require congressmen and senators to take the same healthcare plan they force on us (under proposed legislation they are curiously exempt).



Congressman Fleming is encouraging people to go on his Website and sign his petition (very simple - just first, last and email). I have immediately done just that at:

http://fleming.house.gov/index.html .

Please urge as many people as you can to do the same!
If Congress forces this on the American people, the Congressmen should have to accept the same level of health care for themselves and their families.
_________________
'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

You are one person to the world, but you may be the world to one person.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kevin Gibbons
Resident Royalty
Resident Royalty


Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 924
Location: cheboygan, mi

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Doug

Yes I like debating with you, but you don't play fare you are one of those long winded attorney's. I no you are messed up alot on your thinking but I also no you can't help it. With that said, I'm glad we are friends. Anyway I don't get to get on this computer very much, since I'm still out here in Min. working. But I do agree with Piper on most of the subject so you can debate with him. Good luck Doug I hope that you are a good sport and not a bad losser.
_________________
kevin gibbons
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Al's Sister
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More like the Rich will survive and the Poor will die.. I don't have the same options as the wealthy should I ever need cancer treatment.. More like, if I have it, sucks to be me! And I have Insurance! I want to see Everyone get the Same coverage! I'll follow up on the petition for sure.. Hope it doesn't stall it for the ones in need though..
Back to top
Conis
Resident Royalty
Resident Royalty


Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 2198
Location: My New National ID Forehead Tatoo

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Around and around in circles... much?

Throw it all in a bag. Shake it up and it comes out about the same as it went in except mixed up.

Ok How much will it cost?

How much will it really cost, years forthcoming, unless something is done soon. Something is better than nothing?

As things stand, just one more barrier between the haves and have nots.
_________________
Remember, half the people you know are below average.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Rich
Bois & Grills Club
Bois & Grills Club


Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Waterford, WI

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We all want everyone to be taken care of, we all want someone other than ourselves to pay for it. Doesn't sound much different than all of our other problems.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
doug miller
Resident Royalty
Resident Royalty


Joined: 03 Dec 2002
Posts: 539

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The WSJ had an item today of interest. In 1965 when medicare was implemented, Congress estimated that by 1990 the annual cost of the medicare program would be $12 billion per year. The actual cost of medicare in 1990 was $110 billion per year.

Kevin:

I am not sure that you and I and Piper are all that far apart on the health care debate. I don't trust insurance companies to do the right thing and I don't have confidence that the federal goverment will do the right thing. And I already agreed with Piper that the med malpractice lawsuits are not a big part of the problem.

By the way, the think I really find annoying is that amount everyone in Michigan with a car pays into the catastrophic claims fund. It was up to $100 or so every 6 months for each car you have. Now I think it is around $60 or $70. So if you have 2 cars, you are payig about $280 a year just to pay for medical bills for persons injured in car accidents whose insurance did not cover them. I bet the health care reform is not going to address that $280 bill.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
theeislandgirl
Resident Royalty
Resident Royalty


Joined: 04 Jan 2003
Posts: 1685
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have a friend my age that is a teacher
when she got hired in the plan was when she retired she and her husband would have ins for life a good deal i would say never having to pay for ins ,if that is the case with you mike and lani then you have it made alot better then most
of couse things could change that ,,,,i hope this is the sAME WITH YOU BOTH

I FEEL THAAT as we get older we all will fall between the cracks and will die ..

thatsws not fair to us

alot of trouble with this
not sure what john will have to pay when he retires but it may take a good part of our retirement funds ............to pay for ins
_________________
The girl that would swim daylight to dark every day down at the old dock ...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Familyman
We Wanna Stay!
We Wanna Stay!


Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 251
Location: Rochester Hills, MI

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Instead of helping me pay for insurance, why don't you guys help me pay for that new ATV I want. Between that and a couple of truck payments I should be OK. On second thought, I could really use new carpet in the living room. That will make me a little short on the policy so maybe I'll put off the insurance thing till next year.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mikewhite
Resident Royalty
Resident Royalty


Joined: 01 Jan 2003
Posts: 1404
Location: Sand Bay

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:44 am    Post subject: extremes Reply with quote

When I mentioned the ultimate way to reduce insurance costs, I was showing the extreme position of having no insurances at all, and how that fits in with supply and demand, etc. No one wants that. No empathy there.

The other extreme is having everthing taken care of by the government and we are all treated like babies, if you cry you will get fed.

I hope that a middle ground is reached. A balance between pure business, with no emotion, and empathy for the common man.

Yes, Lani chose to be a teacher and one of the reasons for making that choice was because of the health benefits. I'm a lucky guy. In retirement she does have to pay for insurance, though at a reduced amount. Also, the coverage is not as good. But, we are in an enviable position compared to may others. I hope the state does not rob the fund set aside for this.
_________________
mwhite@wildblue.net
"The more nature you keep, the more nature you'll enjoy." and "It's not who is right, but what is right."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Kevin Gibbons
Resident Royalty
Resident Royalty


Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 924
Location: cheboygan, mi

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich

I don't mind paying more as long as everyone is getting coverage and the policy includes all your medical bills. I don't trust Ins company's to make the decissions what they are going to cover and what they are not. They can raise your rate and drop coverage on any drug anytime they want. And they do. Yes I think all the politicans should have the same ins as we do. And have to pay the same. To be honest I would like to see goverment paid ins. Then I hear I don't trust the goverment, but all they are doing is paying for it. They are not dening coverage like the ins companys can do. They can raise taxes but I would rather pay more taxes then get denied coverage. And we are all ready paying ins for coverage that we don't have. Why not take that money and put into a goverment pay. Oh I know the ins companys would be getting as rich. Good reason! Oh by the way there is a booklet out that you can get from your ins company that tells you what drugs that they are not paying for now. They won't give it out unless you ask for it. More and more drugs go on this list every year. And all the drugs you need for any type of cancer.
_________________
kevin gibbons
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Conis
Resident Royalty
Resident Royalty


Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 2198
Location: My New National ID Forehead Tatoo

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trainwreck insurance:

I pay roughly $3000 annual for insurance that covers absolutely nothing until I hit my $5000 deductable. Assuming I have no prior conditions they can dig up, they are stuck. So the good news is that if I am in a trainwreck it will only cost me the first 5 grand before insurance kicks in.

WTF kind of "health insurance" is that? All out of pocket for me... And thats what I can afford on my current income. Medicare/Medicade is a few years out there. So I guess I am lucky to be able to afford trainwreck insurance but many can't.
_________________
Remember, half the people you know are below average.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Bois Blanc Island Site Forum Index -> BBI TOWN HALL All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group