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health care reform
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:41 pm    Post subject: Health care Reply with quote

Familyman, you are right. Each Party's propaganda is slanted to help some entity outside of what is best for the people. At the end of the day, Rep and Dems both will screw you and me. To think that at the end of the day that whatever health care our Federal Government settles on will be in the public's best interest is a J-O-K-E.

Every Phamacuetical, insurance corp, and medical business influences what plan comes out. PROFITS drive Every argument....the dems the reps will come up with something that is for them and those that donate to their re-elections.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And then we can get a physical at the 7-11, on special for $1.99
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:44 am    Post subject: Health Reply with quote

...right after drinking a 64 oz barrel huge gulp and a dozen glazed donuts....
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe they will even set up an HMO drive through? Like toss in a weekly ration of Prozak on the fly. Just remember to have the window down.
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Squeaky
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I already saw on the news where people were driving up, sticking their arm out the window of their car and getting their good old H1N1 flu shot. I guess this is called a drive thru. Wonder how many times this person giving the shot changed her gloves. She or he may be protecting themselves from whatever but what about the people? Are they being protected?
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:30 pm    Post subject: HC Reply with quote

The "I" in this story is not JEE. This was sent to me in an email.

Ck this out. True?? who knows.:

Subject: from a constitutional lawyer


THE TRUTH ABOUT THE HEALTHCARE BILLS?
Well, I have done it! I have read the entire text of proposed House Bill 3200: The Affordable Health Care Choices Act of 2009. I studied it with particular emphasis from my area of expertise, constitutional law. I was frankly concerned that parts of the proposed law that were being discussed might be unconstitutional. What I found was far worse than what I had heard or expected.

To begin with, much of what has been said about the law and its implications is in fact true, despite what the Democrats and the media are saying. The law does provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for illegal immigrants, free abortion services, and probably forced participation in abortions by members of the medical profession.

The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of business and put everyone into a government run system. All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats and most of them will not be health care professionals. Hospital admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical devices will be strictly controlled.


However, as scary as all of that it, it just scratches the surface. In fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no intention of providing affordable health care choices. Instead it is a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred, or even been contemplated. If this law or a similar one is adopted, major portions of the Constitution of the United States will effectively have been destroyed.


The first thing to go will be the masterfully crafted balance of power between the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of the U.S. Government. The Congress will be transferring to the Obama Administration authority in a number of different areas over the lives of the American people and the businesses they own. The irony is that the Congress doesn't have any authority to legislate in most of those areas to begin with. I defy anyone to read the text of the U.S. Constitution and find any authority granted to the members of Congress to regulate health care.


This legislation also provides for access by the appointees of the Obama administration of all of your personal healthcare information, your personal financial information, and the information of your employer, physician, and hospital. All of this is a direct violation of the specific provisions of the 4th Amendment to the Constitution protecting against unreasonable searches and seizures. You can also forget about the right to privacy. That will have been legislated into oblivion regardless of what the 3rd and 4th Amendments may provide.


If you decide not to have healthcare insurance or if you have private insurance that is not deemed "acceptable" to the "Health Choices Administrator" appointed by Obama there will be a tax imposed on you. It is called a "tax" instead of a fine because of the intent to avoid application of the due process clause of the 5th Amendment. However, that doesn't work because since there is nothing in the law that allows you to contest or appeal the imposition of the tax, it is definitely depriving someone of property without the "due process of law.

So, there are three of those pesky amendments that the far left hate so much out of the original ten in the Bill of Rights that are effectively nullified by this law. It doesn't stop there though. The 9th Amendment that provides: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people;"


The 10th Amendment states: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are preserved to the States respectively, or to the people." Under the provisions of this piece of Congressional handiwork neither the people nor the states are going to have any rights or powers at all in many areas that once were theirs to control.

I could write many more pages about this legislation, but I think you get the idea. This is not about health care; it is about seizing power and limiting rights. Article 6 of the Constitution requires the members of both houses of Congress to "be bound by oath or affirmation" to support the Constitution. If I were a member of Congress I would not be able to vote for this legislation or anything like it without feeling I was violating that sacred oath or affirmation. If I voted for it anyway I would hope the American people would hold me accountable.

For those who might doubt the nature of this threat I suggest they consult the source. Here is a link to the Constitution:

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.ht ml

And another to the Bill of Rights:
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html
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Erica
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, Mr. Engel, not you, too…. They finally found your boogy-man? Who sent you the email? Do you have any reason to believe it is written by a Constitutional attorney? Any reason to believe the writer actually read any of the bills floating around Congress?

There are too many people making money off of the way things are that are going to dirty the water with anything they can find. You big on America being a democracy? Then it’s either socialism or the dread red menace: communism! Religious? You want to pay for an abortion? Old? It will cut into your Medicare. Oops, not scared enough? Death boards! This is across the spectrum; health care, economy, foreign policy, you pick the topic.

The biggest difference between now and “the good old days” is us. We’re trying to paint the Mona Lisa while sitting near a set of running jet engines.

In the “good old days” we only had three networks. News was a local paper, or a half hour of local news and then Uncle Walter for an hour. The “nutjob” you had to put up with was that guy at work you tried to avoid because he made your eyes hurt from rolling up all the time. People actually talked at town meetings because the screaming guy was tossed out. Notice I haven’t brought up the labels? Nutjobs come in all shapes and sizes. By and large, nutjobs were ignored and pushed aside so the rest of us could find better ways of doing things.

Now the inmates are running the asylum. Those who scream loudest are the only ones heard. Yeah, there is some fact-checking going on, but you can’t hear it over the shouting. And who cares about facts anyway? If there is even a chance what they are shouting is true, BE AFRAID!!! Slam on the breaks before all is lost!

We have got to find a way, each of us, to filter the noise! I swear if one more person tells me something is true because a radio or TV person says so, I’ll… If you’re afraid about something one of the versions of the health care bill, READ IT! If you find something that bothers you, call your reps! Go to a town hall and demand answers about something specific! I would love, just once, to see a sign at a protest that showed a few lines from an actual bill with a big red “no” logo over the top! Even if I didn’t agree with the person holding the sign, that person is thinking for themselves! That’s who I want to talk to!

Mr. Engel, I have a great deal of respect for you. I would never question you or anyone else’s freedom of speech. I only ask you this: why have you put this email, which you admit you don’t know if what it’s alleging is true, out where lots of other people will now see it? I ask because by posting it, you seem to endorse it, yet at the same time, you say you don’t know if it’s true.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Erica... gal... you are totally dialed in.

Truth is in perception.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

memo to JEE and Familyman from Beatles;

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Revolution, ca early '70's


You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right

You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan

You ask me for a contribution
Well, you know
We're doing what we can
But when you want money
for people with minds that hate
All I can tell is brother you have to wait
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
Ah

ah, ah, ah, ah, ah...

You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well, you know
You better free you mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
all right, all right, all right
all right, all right, all right
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Familyman
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What healthcare bill? Which one? Read What? Public option, Consumer option, Opt out.......WTF
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Erica
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's kind of my point, Familyman. At this point, there are a bunch of bills getting bounced around. Me, I'm waiting until the total is less than 5, then I'll read them. I think our time could be better spent putting our needs and requirements on the table.

I don't like life or death being by income. That's why we pay taxes so government can employ cops and firemen who work both rich and poor areas. Yeah, there's more crime and fire in the poor parts of town, but at least we as a society can feel like we tried to help. And you have the right to hire your own bodyguard if you don't feel safe enough.

I do know a few facts I'll share. My father died because he was uninsured. Four years before he died, Blue Cross cancelled his coverage. For the year before that, his premiums grew from $2000.00 a month to $6000.00 a month. He was paying more to Blue Cross than all his utilities and house payment. It was getting harder and harder to pay, but he was terrified one accident could wipe him out, so he paid. Then, in November, he didn't get the bill, so he forgot to pay. The day after the check was due, they sent him the letter to tell him he was cancelled. They also offered to re-sign him, but at TWICE the premium. He couldn't.

So when he started to notice a heaviness in his legs, he didn't get it checked out. Then one day, he went from fine to being breathless walking across a room. The next day, he saw a doctor for $75 who spent less than 5 minutes, telling him he had bronchitis. Twelve hours later, the clot that had broken loose in his calf and travelled to his lungs killed him.

My father graduated from Michigan State when I was 3. He spent most of his professional life working for others before he started his own business. He employed 10 other people. He owned his own home, raised 2 kids, and had a great marriage. He never asked the government for anything but 3 unemployment checks when he was between jobs.

Oh, and for the virtues of tort reform? My lawyer told me I can't sue the doctor because even if he had went right into the hospital, the outcome would have been the same. If they had caught the clot, it still would have killed him.

The system is wrong. It has to change.
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Rich
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear about your dad Erica. I assume they never gave him rebates during the years they were making money on his premiums.

The fact that the government hasn't made that illegal shows how much they care about "we the people". I guarantee you that Ted Kennedy's rates didn't change when he got sick.


Last edited by Rich on Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:56 pm    Post subject: ins Reply with quote

down here in Texas there are clincs that people go to that get their meds free however these are clincs that people have health issues like disorders ..........depression and such ..all on medication for mental issues ....................
They own nothing so they can go there for free visits and medications ................................
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Erica
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, read the small print. Most of these places offering free meds are in fact "testing trials". In other words GUINEA PIG DUTY!

In Toledo, it's depression and memory loss. "Here Grandpa! We got meds you could afford! Only we're not sure they work, and it's limited time only!"
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:10 pm    Post subject: health care Reply with quote

Erica, thanks for the great post.

In case you do not know: I am a Ron Paul follower. thus, some of my opinions follow his beliefs.

I believe that "freedom" in America is being lost. This email, which I have no idea if it is written by a constitutional lawyer or not, IS a point of view.

I am not hip on the Federal Government running anything.

It is food for thought in the eight course health care dinner.
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Erica
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Engel, I have to believe by your posts, you follow no one. Maybe Ron Paul comes closest to your beliefs, but you are no one's "follower". (I mean that at a compliment!) You "drink kool ade" for no one.

Constitutional questions are good. I think of myself as a Jeffersonian. I want just enough government that the Alpha can't wipe out the Beta in one move.

The current health care system does just that. Unlike my father, I have insurance. I find such irony in the idea of a government employee "having control" of my health care! The HMOs have been doing that for years!

Can't we find a solution that goes along the same lines as our military, police and fire fighters? No government funded elected surgery (abortions, plastic surgery, gastric bypass), but enough to make poverty not a death sentence?

My mother has an absess, no insurance, and won't have surgery for fear of being wiped out. She's going from Dr. to Dr. for pain pills while I try to find financial help. This is crap! My Dad paid more than $30,000.00 for a rejection letter! We did the right thing, but too bad! Alpha wins! If she has the surgery, it will kill all the $$ from life insurance and cost her a house!
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:36 am    Post subject: Health care Reply with quote

Erica, all that read your post must feel like I do...very sad!!

This health care monster is beyond my grasp. But I have not really dug into it...it scares me.

I read an article that basically said the Fed Gov THINKS that when they see a problem in America they they have to solve it. By creating "solutions" for that problem, ten more problems are created. And a million examples could be produced as examples of their incompetence.

One of Ron Paul's great examples of the USA's problem solving is the use of our Military in foreign theatres. We may solve one issue but then create "blowback" that dwarfs the original problem.

Good luck.
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:52 pm    Post subject: hc Reply with quote

The Democrates say their health care plan will not affect Medicare benefits & will reduce fraud & abuse. Why can't they reduce fraud & abuse now ? Just more political smoke & mirrors to sell another "big government" program ...



Erica ..I hope you are able to find help for your mother
real soon
I agree with John it is very sad .. and so so sad about your father ...

This never should happen in America
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Kevin Gibbons
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So





So Connie what do you want to do , leave it like it is like the republicians do. Let the ins company's deniey coverage. Raise premiums which blue cross is about $900.00 a person a month now, who can afford that. If you have a family plan it is about $1700.00 a month. We just got a letter from Blue Cross canceling My wife's supplemental ins policy as of Dec 31st. And that is up to date in monthly payments. She is just using it to much because of her medical problem. The ins company's can deney coverage at any time they want. There is no regulations on ins company's
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Familyman
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this what you want? Maybe it is. Sometimes I'm under the assumption that you guys are just not informed and don't understand the ramifications. But maybe you do understand and really want this. If that's the case just label me a "conservative", I don't mind the label.


http://www.heritage.org/Research/HealthCare/upload/wm_2599.pdf
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rab49735
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is something I learned while serving as my Mothers Guardian. Check with your county commission on aging for more info:
Blue Cross & Blue Shield of Michigan has a contract with the State of Michigan to offer Supplamental Ins. to all folks 65 and older that qualify financially, no physical is required. This insurance covers 100% what Medicare does not. Cost about $110.00 a month. Believe this info is all correct, but as I stated, check with your local Commission on Aging.
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Squeaky
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rab49735, you are correct about the "Council for the Aging." Every county has one. If they can not help you with what ever it is you are looking for, they will help you-direct you to the right place. They are good people. They have been very helpful to us in caring for my parents also. It would be well worth the try in talking with them.

The mother of a friend of mine has this same deal that you are speakig of thru BCBS.
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:24 pm    Post subject: health care according to RP Reply with quote

This is why I like this guy:

Watch:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Hn6ad4_FzM&feature=player_embedded
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron Paul thumbs_up!
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:31 am    Post subject: ins Reply with quote

Kevin

something has got to change and no one yet has done it for years now but it is not going to be the goverment that will give us the deal we need ..



I feel for what you and your wife is going though ..

We may be the next one that it happens too

It should never happen in America
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