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Yo.. BBislanders TDS- DSL cost 2.6 mil? Like WTF much?

 
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Conis
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:48 pm    Post subject: Yo.. BBislanders TDS- DSL cost 2.6 mil? Like WTF much? Reply with quote

Read the posts. I can truly appreciate the need for broadband on BBI. net-sat sucks and thats the option for now until everyone can use wireless cell 3g on the island, which many use already . It's getting better all the time.

TDS is proposing, island wide DSL, with a loop around the island perimeter (fiber optic). by the time this is actually installed, it will be totally obsolete technology (2013) at what cost to subscribers?. $2.6 mil for the project, $650k picked up by TDS. By my estimates, it will take 500-1000 years to break even on $650k. How many subscribers? 50-100? when most are ditching land lines for cell with 3-g internet?

DSL is already old school . A one up to dial up controlled by the admin phone company, i have it at home because it is only show in town. 5 years forward, NO ONE will have land lines or DSL. This means TDS is intending to install tech which will be obsolete when and if ever put into service.

I wouldn't pay $100/mo on BBI for landline DSL service. I have a cell phone. TDS doesn't even have a subscriber cost yet.The fewer subscribers, the higher the cost.

The tooth fairy isn't Paying the $2.6 mil. We all are. Wreckless gov't spending without oversight ... cost efective preview accounting is not in the formula Lets just throw some money at it?.

So.. You want broadband DSL on BBI? Lets see how long it lasts assuming TDS even gets it installed, debugged, up and running. TDS will lose their a** and I am sure this is already a "known". It's called creative bookkeeping. TDS takes a hit, writes it off. The Govt takes the bigger hit and we all eat it, which is why the USA as a 15 trill defecit. It's just paper with picture and numbers, so spend it.

This will never fly. If it does, it will be just long enough to satisfy the rules, then it will crash as not cost effective. You and I pick up the tab. Feel free to write this one on the wall. See where tis clusterf**k is at aroub\nd 2013.

So thats my take on stupid waste gov't programs. Obsolete off the starting line. And here is another example with a chrome plated frame around it, with TDS poised to some advantage at our expense..., End of story...
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Right Guy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conis, you are not looking at this the right way. This is how to judge the worth of a government aided project.
1. Is it Shovel Ready.
2. Will it allow TDS to add a job or jobs.
3. Will the cost of creating that or those new employees be less than $285,000.00 per.
4. Can we count those jobs as saved or new.
5. Make sure the new hires name is Green or Verde, so it will be a Green Job.
6. Make sure at least 98% of new hires are minority or illegal.
7. Make sure all the products being used are at least 1 percent Made in the USA, or at least labeled Made in USA.

Other opportunities.

Have President Obama schedule a press conference with TDS.
Have Governor Snyder take the project away from TDS and award the project to the Lansing DPW. Take a loan from Canada which will be repaid with access fees.

I believe this project fits like a glove.
I have an extra shovel waiting.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RG. We don't agree on much however I am in full agreement with you on the debacle. I would say it is "shovel ready".

Just for the record, BBI does need solid broadband. My sympathy to those suffering with satellite which it is that or nothing. Personally... I have no need for this service on the island and woudn't be willing to pay for it, for a few weeks use a year. Do without.

Aside from the enormous cost to supply DSL to a minimal # of subscribers at ??? subscription cost, this technology is far better suited for high density population areas. I live in a rural area, have DSL and pay through the nose for it. Once Verizon has 4G coverage in this area, I am DONE with both the landline and DSL.

I just wonder how many land line subscribers TDS has on the island. 2-1/2 phonebook pages so it wouldn't take long to find out. Or how many have dropped the expense of a land line and switched to cell? The potential subscriber base is decreasing annually. Of that base, I really wonder how many would pay for internet service for a few weeks in the summer?

There are newer better technologies better suited for this sort of application. I suspect they will over take DSL not long after this gets installed and up and running... 4G or island wide Wifi, accessable via a monthly subscripption with charges to a credit card.

This whole thing has a funny smell to it. TDS comes in and says this is what we are going to do and how much it's going to cost. Obviously they are going to make some money somehow but it won't be from user subscriptions.

Wouldn't you think they would do a market survey first? Contact all the TDS land line users and all those with cottages on BBI and see what sort of response they get before forging ahead? So 2.6 mil gets spent to find out 25-50 people actually use it? Who would know? Do the math.

The tooth fairy isn't paying the 2.6 million bill. The taxpayers are. Government squandering at it's finest. There are other broadband systems that could be implemented at a fraction of the cost (wireless) which might also be used by marine traffic passing through the straits.

I understand the island residents want broadband NOW and I don't blame them. Installing inappropriate dinosaur technology just might stall better technology which is already available...

TDS is going to make some money here. Just haven't figured out how, yet. In reality, I would be surprised to see this ever completed and functional. This sort of BS is prime for budget cutting.
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Rich
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So maybe dumping more " pay for your neighbor's crap " programs on the few of us paying taxes is a bad idea? Like gov issued cell phones, cash for clunkers, mortgage bailouts, energy saving window rebates, crop subsidies, don't plant your crop subsidies, endless unemployment and on and on and on. The new election will bring more of the same, only the group that benefits might change. The middle will never get anything but the bill until we change our election process.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Appears to me the government thinks the tax paying middle class IS the tooth fairy?

How can the "election process" be changed after deteriorating to the point it now stands? Money is power. Those holding the purse strings (the gov't and fed reserve printing paper with pictures and numbers on it, formerly the US dollar) Make stuff up as they go along.

Rich... you nailed it. This isn't really about DSL on BBI, it is about TDS somehow milking government subsidies for "rural development" with zero cost effective accountability.

Back in the 70's there was some sort of telecommunications subsidy that WAS cost effective. Our locally owned, antique 12 party phone lines were abandoned and replaced with buried cable, (private lines) and current touch tone tech. It is stiill current although many of the cables are being upgraded after 40 years. The system is good enough that the phone company was able to install high speed DSL to service a 5 mile radius from town. NO FIBER OPTIC CABLES and it didn't cost 2.6 million to install. We have about 200 DSL subscribers out of 850 on our exchange. My cost is under $50 a month for 3mbs down and 600k up.

I know for a fact the phone company is running the DSL service at a profit The only down side is that to get DSL, have to pay for landline as well which bumps it up to about $100 a month. I expect this may all change in the next 2-3 years... at which time I would abandon the landline and switch phone over to VOIP internet, which I could and should do now albeit no real savings (yet) Those beyond the 5 mile radius cannot get DSL so stuck with landlines, dial up or satellite. The phone company is looking ahead, too, bringing the system up to multi use looking not so far ahead when TV and most communicate is via internet, even in rural areas.

That money spent for telecommunication update, back in the 70's was well spent, cost effective and forward looking. I suspect this was the same funding that brought current island wide phone service to BBI.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
The way this appears to be presented... TDS is going to sell bundled packages? Phone, internet and Dish Network TV. So for how much a month? Perhaps they are wising up too, looking ahead to a time when having a wired land line isn't a prerequisite for getting DSL?

Dish Network? Now theres a joke. Another obsolete technology going down the tube as broadband becomes more available. $30-$50 a month for junk infomercial channels and "programming" that is 50% spam. Had DN for 15 years. Turn it on and puke after 5 minutes of spam in my face. 90% of my TV programming is now via the internet (ROKU), on demand and commercial free for $9.oo a month subscription to netflix and hulu.

Read back through the posts. Someone (this past spring) posted on this site about bring wifi broadband to BBI. Maybe he got cold feet after learning TDS was ahead of him? Who knows. I have heard broadband wifi is being installed in Cheboygan and may be up and running by this summer. If so, it will kill the current wired broadband ISPs, being far less costly to maintain= lower subscription cost= NOT needing cable or landline for net access..

With this insight, having wired DSL on BBI essentially makes islanders hostage to TDS and will discourage any newer-better tech from coming to the island? Room for competition? Not on BBI. So be owned by TDS and pay what they say.

So... if TDS gets this half installed and says "Oh by the way... phone, DSL and dish will run you $250/month, $500 installation and one year contract" Will customers be lined up ? Seasonal ? For some reason that information isn't out there yet. As I heard it, TDS won't even allow BBI landline subscribers to use dial up to Cheboygan.

Anyone given any through to any of this?
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conis said, "Read back through the posts. Someone (this past spring) posted on this site about bring wifi broadband to BBI. Maybe he got cold feet after learning TDS was ahead of him?"

I brought this up with the TDS guy at the meeting. He said something like if someone wanted to have a wireless business on BBI that would be competition, but they (TDS) would be willing to negotiate a deal with the wireless people to tap into the fiber optic line to get internet.

I have no real opinion on this as it IS a done deal. Just wanted to mention what the response was to the question I asked.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a feeling it is a done deal, too. Lets just hope it works out in the long run. Since I won't be using TDS, it really don't affect me one way or the other.

Will look for the wifi post. Seemed to me this operation was to be it's own network independent of TDS? So TDS says" OK hook up some wifi hubs here and there but you will have to use our service to make it off the island?

I really don't like monopolies , especially gov't subsidized ones. Lets just see how this all unfolds. The interesting part will be when TDS comes up with subscription costs.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the link to earlier discussion re wifi on BBI. I skimmed through it and stand corrected in that this wifi would lease fiber optic from TDS.

http://www.bois-blanc.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1959&highlight=wifi
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mrshelf
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conis...I don't yhink I know you. Were you at the TDS town hall meeting on June 28th?
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pilotkid
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow Conis, you sureeeee seem to be an expert on government spending. Are you, by chance, an elected official?
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:56 am    Post subject: Bundling Services Reply with quote

Bundling services is the big push right now. It appears that TDS will try their best to bundle internet and land line phone. Plus, they also are pushing Dish for television. Once they get you bundled up, or should I say lassoed, then it makes it harder to get yourself untied, if you so desire.

The competition is bundling of internet and cell phone services. The same thing happens, your lassoed into that plan and it is hard to get loose.

Many are going with the cell phone - internet bundle and this wave is a threat to TDS. The fiber optic route is a step up, but Conis is correct in that it will become old tech, or is old tech. TDS is betting that when this is in place and they get us lassoed, or should I say bundled, then it will be hard for us to unbundle when we see the light on wireless.

Bill Rutledge brought this becoming old tech subject up at the meeting. He was basically brushed off with some funny talk. They did not answer his question.
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Ron Petersen
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike - Just thought I'd jump in - My phone and internet, although through the same company, are not bundled - I get 2 different bills and there isn't any price advantage except that I dont have to depend on a land line at all now for internet - - I can still recieve calls at home on the land line, but if I call out it is $.60/min, (which we don't do) - this still lets us have our name in the phone book but now our land line phone bill is about $17.00/month
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pilotkid
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...thats what I thought. Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
...thats what I thought.

Meaning What??
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Conis
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

unlikely TDS will offer DSL w/out phone land line and that could get pricy. This may change as I hear that DSL is made available w/out phone in most urban areas (to compete against cable, I guess).

See where it goes. With fast DSL you wont need analog phone service, anyway.
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:17 am    Post subject: Conis an elected official Reply with quote

Conis is a federal undercover investigator. He is looking for the best service to link all the sheeple into the federal homeland security system to keep tabs on the likes of potential tree terrorists. We need to give up some freedoms for better security. I'll pay for anything the government tells me to if it is for my security. DSL, WIFI, broadban, you name it, it is in our best interest.

Right, RG?
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Conis
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JEE. Thanks a wad from blowing my cover. Don't tell anyone about the insurgent cell camped on the island in Lake Thompson. They are using CB radios hooked to the internet and getting their prime directives from the tooth fairy.
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Right Guy
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just file it under Hope and Change. Gimmie, Gimmie, Gimme.....More, More, More....
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Ron Petersen
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

........That's what I thought Rolling Eyes
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