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Sand Bay, Public Access or Private Property???
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bbislandgirl
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I know what you're talking about. I was agreeing with the dawn til dusk thing. And someone previously mentioned their concern about the beach being overgrown because of lack of use.
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Squeaky
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tell me if I am off track-wrong or whatever.... Did not the previous owners of the property-home that Albers own not have that so call public road checked as to owned it? Or was it the Whites? (This is what people do when they buy something. They want to know exactly what they are buying) Did not someone own it? And did he not buy it and if so is it not now Albers property? If the beach is going to open from dawn to dusk, then where is everyone going to use the bathroom, dump their trash, etc. especially if they are going to be all dayers. I am sure that home-property owners are not wanting to clean up after anyone. Why doesn't anyone ask questions to Albers about the whole thing. I am sure he knows as much as The Whites. Have any of you attended any of the court issues on this to shout your opinions? And from what I have heard is that this so called public road leading to the beach has always been owned by someone and that all of these years that everyone went down there you were driving on someones property and just because you were able does not mean that you can now. Someone lives there now. Hang in there Jeff/Shiela Another quick idea-why don't each and everyone of us buy a piece of the Island and that way we could take care of our own and not worry about someone else's piece. Razz
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joe
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Squeaky, you're just misinformed. The road is public. And I'm not sure I care for this vision of each of us on our little pieces of property, walking the perimiters and glaring over the fence to see who might be coming down the lane. I for one can't afford to own all the lakes, the north shore, the pines, the gold coast the west end, sand bay and the east end etc. But I do like to visit them all and enjoy the island in its entirety. If I wanted to squat on a small patch of dirt and assert my ownership of it to the exclusion of enjoying the surrounding area I guess I'd buy a chunk closer to home, put up fences and save the boat fees.
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Squeaky
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe, Please not the fences. But like the old saying goes. High fences-fences or whatever do make good neighbors. Seriously, I said nothing about fences. Anyhow, there is enough trees to make up for fences. Lets not get something else started but then again maybe everyone might get off the sand bay thing. Happy Happy Happy Maybe now that the weekend is over and we all get back to work we won't have so much time on our hands. Have a good week!
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will say again, The road needs to be used to show it is wanted and required by the public.. Every time someone asks the Alber's for permission to access the beach just helps the private side of the issue and aids them in making it private. The road is still public but restricted.


Als sister said the above ......... and I agree with her ....

I had been away from the island for a few years and when I drove down the road to go to the beach at sand bay I was shocked !!!! ... Where was the road to the beach ?????? ... The road to sand bay had something .. I cannot remember what, blocking the road .... If I had not known that there was a road down to sand bay or had I not known there was a part of the beach called Sand Bay on the island I would have turned around and went back to the main road ...( I believe this is happening alot)

Our family decided to go around what was blocking the road so we could reach the beach ...

How can we show the road is wanted if it is blocked or looks like there is not a road there ??????
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:28 pm    Post subject: as Reply with quote

think its funny that there is thousands of acres of State land and beach front just as nice as Sand Bay and you all are hell bent on getting down to Sandy Bay.

The above was written by Jeff and Sheila Godbold



Of course we want to enjoy Sand Bay .. its part of our history on the island... I had many a picnic there as i was growing up with my mom .. Grandparents ....and my brothers .... and of course other family members and friends ..... Sand Bay is part of us ....... part of the island we love so much ...... I do not understand why anyone that lives on the island and loves the island would make a statement like that .....
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Al's Sister
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sqeaky, I'm familiar with the legal stuff because of the White's.. I am a White. They have no problem with it being Public even if it means losing a bit of thier own property because they believe it to be public. The Barnett's owned the property before the Alber's and the Barnett's blocked the access. The County removed the block and that is where the court issue started. The township didn't start it. The Barnett's challenged the County which forced the County to cover themselves.. The township is required to contribute to the legal fees. It's always been pack out what you pack in and I never remember it being trashed.. Alber's info is slanted to private. My info is slanted to public.. I Had assumed Jeff was the man with the info as far as the Alber's are concerned.. I'm not worried about someone else's place.. I have access to Sand Bay.. Why am I sooo concerned? Because it was always public until Barnett's decided it wasn't. That isn't right! So sorry Alber's bought into a mess, inherited the process so to speak.. They chose to fight it and have that property.. I don't feel it's right for private owners to block a public access. And I could turn the questions too.. Why did Barnett's have to build the house right there? Why did they decide the property run over the road. Heck, my property description where I live says I own to the center of the Manistee River. But I can't block it! Says the center line of the road too! But I can't block it! Some mistake was made in the distant past and the road has always been used by the public.. Isn't the public grandfathered in too?!!! I heard from Lisa who heard from Mike who says the legal name for what's up now is "status quo".. The court wants to see the results.. In other words.. If you seek permission from Alber's you strengthen the private stance. If you use the road frequently. Stop, look, turn around and leave, you are helping the public stand. There is room to turn around on Mike's side.. Cool
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jeff
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, the township doesn't have to help with legal fees, they voted to do so.

Isn't it funny how the road is assumed to be public from the county road to the White's house and at the White's house it turns private?

What's up with that?

Barnett blocked the road because it is not where it should be and he received title to the two lots in Sand Bay resort that this "road" sits on. When you get title to something it is yours.

The Township and County are stealing this property from the property owner and using tax dollars to do it. Like we said earlier, it could have been purchased when it was for sale for much less.

We could go into more depth and argue this point until it is blue in the face!

Enough said, the court will rule and everyone will finally be happy and if your not then nothing can make you happy!

You guys can continue to chat away at this forever if you choose, we will still stand our ground until complete.

You will here no more from us on this issue, so continue to "chat"

Jeff & Sheila Godbold
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Troy
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lauren,
If you haven't figure it out, its been a few posts since you responded, the Albers are the ones blocking the road and harrassing people. They also block the part of the road that is the beach access. One summer they had the access so blocked off with debris, I accidently turned into their driveway thinking it was the road. This is also were the huge RV gets parked, blocking 3/4 of the raod (in front of Albers). Then they come out and tell people they can not use the road, before they even know who they are or ask why they are there. When that person may have every right to use the road (visisting someone that lives there). By doing this they are bringing on problems with people they should have no problem with. So now you know who I was talking about, maybe you could go down and straighten them out.
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JessKidder
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeff wrote:

If you feel stongly about something make sure you stand up for it and be totally truthful about the issue.

If you care so much about the island and its progress, quit b-tching about it and get on a board. Attend the meetings, watch the postings in the news paper online and then respond. You people need to keep in touch and not stand back until its too late.

Both, Jeff & Sheila have sat on these boards and filled in when needed, we have paid our dues, now its your turn.

All of you know, no matter what we discuss, it can all turn into a hornets nest because someone has a deep emotion about it somewhere and will need to vent.

Hope eveyone has a great Labor Day Weekend!

Jeff & Sheila Godbold


Now it is our turn!? How do I sign up? I believe in informed decision making about the Island for the Island and for the Islanders present and future. And I am standing up for it! We, as Islanders, have something worth protecting.... lets get organized before it is too late! The future of the island and the quality of life on the Island that we all value deeply depends on all of us.

Who is ready!? I know I am and I am ready to heed the charge
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Al'sOtherSister
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's up with that, Jeff asks....
The road going down to Sand Bay, between what is now Albers and Whites property, is and always has been a public road...ever since a train used to go right thru there. The private road is and always has been private and was posted as such, it is not a county road and is not plowed or taken care of by the county. It all comes down to: History....Grandfathered....and in the road to Sand Bay, Status Quo, which is the position the judge put it in, until a judgement is made. This means that it is what it always has been before, public.
The problem, the easement for the properties on either side is straight, the road is crooked.
The top end of the road, further away from the water, is pinched off by the easement.
Where Troy says that Albers have parked an Rv 3/4 of the way across, I believe is where this pinch is at. Albers, understanding the courts, have tried to discourage people from using this road. This has been said before...if they see that the road is not being used by the public, then it will not be a public road.
You may drive down the road, you may not deviate off it on either side, as this is private property. If you stay on the road, you may stop, park on the raod, you may use the beach on either side, up to the high water mark. There is not alot of room to turn around, backing up may be the only option, it is sandy at the end and you may get stuck, you may ask permission of Mike to use his property to park or turn around on his property(Lani's Landing to the left) but that is his option to do so. If you are being unruly, leaving trash, or being obnoxious, it is Albers and Whites right to call Grahm on you.
The road, if being used by the public, will have a better chance of staying that way, if it continues to be used. In the courts eyes, it will still be the public road it always has been. Albers have done a good job to keep people off it. Telling people it is private property, making people feel uncomfortable about going down there, they have done their best to make their little corner of the Island better for them. When I go down to their side, I try to be respectful of the fact, they want their privacy. I have made the kids turn down their music, I have myself and told my kids to pass by their house before stopping, picking things up off the beach and keep the dogs at a respectful distance. All they want is privacy...
But to ask that no one else enjoy that beach, mostly on my brother's side, and the only way to have direct access is a road that has always been public until Barnett attempted to block, and the Alber"s have
attempted to block, is quite unfair in my eyes and in my humble opinion.

Jeff, you can decide not to go on with the subject, and not voice what is your opinion...but it will not stop others from voicing their's.

I am hoping that Mike will come on soon and give us some insite into the legal side of this, and ofcourse, his opinion. Lisa
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Squeaky
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why did Barnetts build where they did? He-she are the only ones whom could answer that. Didn't stay long either, did they? Rolling Eyes
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:30 pm    Post subject: very Reply with quote

Very WEll Said you guys ....

Public is public ..


and Jess Kidder we are losing the island inch by inch ...

Only the Rich will be able to afford to go there ...
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bbislandgirl
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the info Troy. Now that I know who you're talking about, it's a little easier to follow. However, I have never heard that the Albers have done that. I have known them forever and I wasn't aware that they are being...manipulative you could say. Obviously, I have missed a lot in that category. And clearly it is an ongoing problem with them, based on what many of you have said. I am however confused with one thing - are they trying to block the entire road from being used or just the public access driveway/road and beach? Or all of the above? I think it's a bit ridiculous what they are doing, if they are indeed blocking the road with debris and parking their massive RV in the way. But I also can understand why they are doing it. If I lived in that place, just feet from the private, calm section, I would be envious of my neighbors and long for their privacy, but no, I do not agree with the way they are going about this problem. And Troy, from what I'm hearing, I'd love to go "straighten them out" but they have a lil' more power over me. Well perhaps we should send them some sort of request for the dawn to dusk thing. But I do understand their reasoning for doing what they're doing, cuz hey, who doesn't like privacy, but as I said, I don't like how they're handling it.
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JessKidder
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

theeislandgirl wrote:


and Jess Kidder we are losing the island inch by inch ...

Only the Rich will be able to afford to go there ...


theeislandgirl.. no offense but "we" are not losing the island. The challenge is only beginning. "We" will only loose the island if that is what "we" want for the island. But you are correct about only the rich being able to go there because "we" are the rich, rich in island history, rich in island love, and rich in islandness.

slightly off of sand bay issues but relevant.... by the way... what do "we" want for the island? today? tomorrow? 30 yrs? (maybe we should start a new topic/post?)
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bbislandgirl
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah, one more thing, how often does this issue with them come up? I mean, I've never seen anyone at Sand Bay besides people who live there, besides the occasional annying jet-skiiers. Is this just because the Albers shoe them away? Fill me in.
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Al'sOtherSister
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBislandgirl said

Quote:
Well perhaps we should send them some sort of request for the dawn to dusk thing.


Again..this would be asking permission for something we should not have to, and giving the perception to the courts that this is a private road.
The rules should be addressed to all land owners? Or would this be a township thing?

This has been ongoing, and trying not to rock the boat with neighbors, friends and family, the permissive nature of the situation has evolved.
But it has gone on to long, because now the road looks as if no one uses it.

This only has to do with the public road to the water, not the private road.
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Squeaky
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I myself feel that NO ONE should be picked on-including the Albers, neighbors, friends or family. Cause this is what it sounds like. Are we talking rules to all land owners on the Island or just Sand Bay? What about those that visit on BBI?
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Al'sOtherSister
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are not picking on anybody...
A public road is just that, a public road. If someone, anyone, is blocking a public road and making others percieve it as that, and obviously doing it to benefit themselves in some way....it is wrong. Not picking, just stating a fact. The topic was brought up, we are discussing it.

By the way, this is not something that will be decided by sitting on a board or responding to a paper article, etc. This is in the courts and the only way to change it, is to use the road or not. Your choice...
You want the road to continue to be public? Use it!
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Al's Sister
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's what "Status Quo" means and is in the court records. Well said, Lisa. Relax Squeaky, it's in the courts hands and the public's tire tracks now. Cool
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:03 pm    Post subject: The road to the Sand Bay beach Reply with quote

Hi. This is Mike White. I own on the south side of the road to the beach at Sand Bay. The courts are still deciding what the status of the road will be. In the mean time, the court decreed that the road would remain "Status Quo" until that decision is made. That means the road can be used as it has been for 60 plus years. It also means that the county can't change the width ar make any big changes in the road. I know this stuff because I have been at, and involved in, virtually every court proceeding that has happened over the years about the road issue. There are no public use restrictions yet on Sand Bay Road. There may be restrictions later when the case is decided. those restrictions will be incorporated into an agreement for an easement between Albers and the Road Commission. That agreement, is not signed.

If you have specific questions, my e-mail address is mikewhite@glis.net.
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Al's Sister
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Mike.. I knew you could explain it in a nutshell so it was clearly understood. Cool
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Squeaky
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Relax Squeaky? Let us all relax. Like was said-The court will take care of this.. See Ya! #Crazy Life will go on with or without that road leading to the beach..... Carry on
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Laughing
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bbislandgirl
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I didn't mean ask their permission, I just meant that maybe some of us should try to politely talk to them. Or are they beyond that? Kinda sounds like it. Well I can see why they'd be mad if there were constantly people on the beach in front of their house, but I'm lucky if I see one person every few weeks. The more I learn about their actions, the more I lean toward public. If it were the case that it was always crowded there, I'd say private, but based on what I'm hearing, I say public.
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