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Uncle Steve
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shrug Yo Conis... You missed my point, I guess I wasn't very clear.. My point was " The consumer demanded cheap, and we got cheap.. Now we need to demand Quality and service.. The big box stores just meet our demands. " Didn't mean to touch a nerve... I know where you are coming from...
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Conis
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uncle Steve wrote:
Shrug Yo Conis... You missed my point, I guess I wasn't very clear.. My point was " The consumer demanded cheap, and we got cheap.. Now we need to demand Quality and service.. The big box stores just meet our demands. " Didn't mean to touch a nerve... I know where you are coming from...


No nerves touched (unless you get me started on Cabelas).

For the record, I think there are differences between the terms "economical", "cheap" and "quality". And absolutely the box stores meet the demand. Cheap isn't always economical. We always have the option of shopping at them or not.

You used the OPM term: "Other Peoples Money". Wally has turned things inside out with OPM that they could about be considered "consignment" sales. Ok. Who are the Other People and How much money is left on the Merry Go Round? The distributors are the ones caught between the rocks and hard spots.

Manufacturers will build product only on contract for x quantity, quite often with front money from whomever is ordering product. They are in the manufacturing business, not the product stocking business. SO OPM is who ever orders it. Wally says, bring it, you get paid when we sell it less shelf rental space in the interim it sits there. The distributor-middleman-vendor is the one on the limb. To stay in the game, GO CHEAPER, or GO UNDER. and to go cheaper means having stuff manufactured outside the USA, and US Manufacturers either do likewise or GO UNDER. This is one nasty little merry go round. The faster and longer it goes, the more people get spun off.

I see Wally as a house of cards. Sooner or later it will crash from it's own weight with nothing left at the bottom to prop it up.

It is the people pounding nails into boards and putting nuts on the bolts, working for an hourly wage that are the Other People. When the jobs are gone, so is the Money.

So much for the short version.

C
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West End Piper
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conis, I would say that you have kicked the sh*t outta that dead horse!!! Laughing And, you keep teasin' us with that Cabela's story! Can't you change the names or speak in metaphors, to relate the story without invoking a lawsuit? You're killin' us here. Laughing I used to buy much of my hunting/camping gear, as well as clothing, from Cabela's. Then, Bass Pro Shop opened, 20 minutes from my house. I have been very pleased with their prices, selection, and service. I haven't bought a thing from Cabela's since.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:37 am    Post subject: SPORTING GOODS. Reply with quote

West End Piper wrote:
Conis, I would say that you have kicked the sh*t outta that dead horse!!! Laughing And, you keep teasin' us with that Cabela's story! Can't you change the names or speak in metaphors, to relate the story without invoking a lawsuit? You're killin' us here. Laughing I used to buy much of my hunting/camping gear, as well as clothing, from Cabela's. Then, Bass Pro Shop opened, 20 minutes from my house. I have been very pleased with their prices, selection, and service. I haven't bought a thing from Cabela's since.


I agree the WALLY subject is about run into the dirt. I never intended this thread to go there when I posted the video link which I felt has more to do with urban sprawl and conservation.

Cabelas: Sorry I can't go there. I won't make allegations. Lets just say they have learned well from Wally. I did check out the Dundee store a couple years ago. Like Disney Land of sporting goods. Pretty entertaining and impressive, I'll give them all of that! After 3-4 hours, I bought a candy bar and called it a tour.

I know zippo about Bass Pro except they are Cabellas largest competitor and probably merchandise in the same manner. I been into a couple Bass Pro stores, They got the STUFF!

I have done business with ORVIS, they are easy to work with and great to do business with. In fact, the "quality" of their management is like the quality of their products. Each and every product they sell has to be personally field tested and endorsed by the CEO before it makes the catalog. For the most part, what Orvis sells is American made, And why is costs a little extra. You get what you pay for. I have an orvis jacket (made in the USA) that I have worn the crap out of for 20 years and it probably has another 10 left. Quality over quantity with Orvis and an entirely diferent clientele. Same with LL Bean.

Personally, I like going into the mom and pop small town sporting good outlets. I support them as much as possible.

If you are through Indian River, stop in at Northland Sports. WHAT A MUSEUM! One block west of 27 next to the Inn Between Tavern, just before you cross the bridge heading north. A collection of antique fishing lures numbering in the thousands. This is the original OLD TIME sporting good store, pot belly woodburner going in the back. Stuff piled up on stuff. If he ain't got it, it doesn't exist.

Pat and Garys (also Indian River right on 27 in town) is also worth a stop and look. A great sporting good department, two floors, and prices which are usually below catalog.

Jays is another store I support. Michigan based. Their prices are a little ^ but their service and support is great. I rememeber when Jay had the little store east of Clare. I also rememeber geting into some sort of arguement with Jay (back in the late 70's) about something stupid. He took me in the back room to his office and got me dialed in over the course of an hours discussion. I left a happy customer and a friend of Jays. His ambition was to have what now stands as JAY'S in Clare. He died just after the store opened but is now run by the family. This is reflected in the way they do business 1-1 with vendors, first name basis. What a success story!

C
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veva
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:25 pm    Post subject: WallyI Reply with quote

I SURE HOPE WE DONT HEAR FROM EVERY ONE THAT HAS AN OPINION ON THIS SUBJECT . WWWWE WONT HAVE TIME TO GET TO THE ISLAND
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Conis
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:50 pm    Post subject: Re: WallyI Reply with quote

veva wrote:
I SURE HOPE WE DONT HEAR FROM EVERY ONE THAT HAS AN OPINION ON THIS SUBJECT . WWWWE WONT HAVE TIME TO GET TO THE ISLAND


Amen. I think the problem is that the BBI website has already covered about every possible available BBI topic and run each into the dirt? Now that we have beat on Wally, whats left?

This is the "conservation corner" ie conservation and environmental discussion. Maybe pertaining to BBI or global?

I got a doosie coming that will make this thread look like Mr Rogers land.

I am trying to post things that will evoke thought and discussion and are of common interest. Not always BBI direct, but of interest. I think we all share the same interests; preservation?

If I am off track or over the top, Please just say so. I'd be glad to shut up.

C
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Charlie Trie
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conis - Why do you believe Wally is a house of cards?

From my perspective, they get a high return on capital. They actually run on negative cash, and generate alot of cash flow. If they'd stop growing, they'd pour out free cash flow.

What folks don't realize is that they set the price point for many, many items. Even if you don't shop at WMT (which I don't), you get the benefit of lower prices everywhere they compete.

Do you have any experience with Gander Mountain? Their stock has looked attractive in the past on a numbers basis. I've bought and sold a little. But since I've never even seen one of their stores, I've just played with it.

FWIW, I'm an REI fan.
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:32 pm    Post subject: stores Reply with quote

I bought six white, long sleeved shirts and five pair of pants at the Salvation army for nineteen bucks. I was totally happy.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charlie,

with all due respect...

Quote:
What folks don't realize is that they set the price point for many, many items. Even if you don't shop at WMT (which I don't), you get the benefit of lower prices everywhere they compete.


(edit/insert)
And that is the problem in a nutshell. They have vendors cutting each others throats in get the lowest possible price, quality who cares? So assembly is moved outside the USA and american made products are non profitable and non-competitive, at least in the Wally venue. The $ benchmark is set, more and more go under and wa-la: Monopoly.

You and I are looking at Wally from 180 degrees. I don't believe in the way Wally operates, nor do many of my associate-friends who have been through the Wally grinder and have refused to do business with them (those who survived). This is a good place to leave it.

Last I heard, Gander Mountain was absorbed by Cabellas. Cabellas bought out GMs catalog order, they are storefront only now, about 25% of the size they once were Don't even come close to me with the "C" word.

For those of you who don't know me or what I have done for a living the past 25 years. I was involved in contract manufacturing and marketing of a "sporting good product", electronics, hunting dog tracking equipment. I been there and done that with all of them. We closed shop because our sub contractors could no longer compete with the "Asian assembly". A lot of this crap I understand in depth and it affected me personally and I took it personally. I blame our government for NAFTA and letting all this stuff get out of control. Which it is.

C
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Last edited by Conis on Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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Squeaky
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conis, you are so correct on the NAFTA thing. Did not the people vote that in? Perot (sp) was right on way back then and so many thought he was out in left field somewhere. He said that all of this would come to play.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:44 pm    Post subject: Re: stores Reply with quote

John Elmer Engel wrote:
I bought six white, long sleeved shirts and five pair of pants at the Salvation army for nineteen bucks. I was totally happy.


KUDOS MY BOY! I would have done the same! $19 bux aint a good time at Mc Donalds!

I am an Ebay junkie, looking for the near new-used good deal. Let some other consumer chump take the hit off the "new" starting line. Good deals are where you find them. But takes some work to find them.

C
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Conis
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Squeaky wrote:
Conis, you are so correct on the NAFTA thing. Did not the people vote that in? Perot (sp) was right on way back then and so many thought he was out in left field somewhere. He said that all of this would come to play.


And so it has. it all sounded good on paper at THAT time.

This is a global economy. Never accuse me of being an isolationist.

Home many GM trucks did China buy last year?
(edit) I am surprised I stupidly wrote the above line. I wasn't thinking. GM Trucks are now built in Canada.
C
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Last edited by Conis on Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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Dave Cox
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last I heard, NAFTA stood for

No
American
Factories
Taking
Applications
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West End Piper
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just loved how all of the politicians acted shocked and surprised, when corporations started moving their manufacturing "out-of-country", after the passage of NAFTA. They were all claiming that they had no idea such a thing would happen. They were only looking to expand our markets - Yeah right. And monkeys might fly outta my butt tonight too!
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:01 am    Post subject: I Reply with quote

I agree what Conis has to say .. hes got it right on !!!!!!
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bknoll
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wally is about to dip his hands into the world of banking.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bknoll wrote:
Wally is about to dip his hands into the world of banking.


Why not make it formal?

"The first national bank of Wally"
Motto: " When we take you to the cleaners, we'll turn your pockets inside out, then hang you out to dry."
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Charlie Trie
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WMT has applied for an Industrial Loan Company (ILC) charter. Some 61 companies including General Motors, GE, and Pitney Bowes have such banks. Target has recently applied. It's of interest that General Motors major profit center has been its finance arm, not its vehicle business for a long, long time.

Banking is a commodity business, where the commodity is money that gets printed up by the Government and lent out to consumers. Banks are notoriously inefficient. No wonder they fear WMT's entry into the business.

In my home town, nearly every strip mall sports a check cashing outlet that does payday loans. THESE LOANS ARE MADE AT 30% INTEREST!!! What a rip!!!

Likewise, local banks give 0.5% interest on savings accounts, while they lend money @ 7-8%. What a rip!!

Credit card companies charge 12-20+%. What a rip!!!

I'd be happy to see someone give these crims a run for their money.

States used to have usury laws to protect folks from predatory lending practices. Maybe the Great State of WalMart will have to pick up that big stick.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am starting my own bank with my own currency. It is going to be the "first bank of the peoples republic of Lake Thompson Island". There will be a canoe up ATM on the shore.

Curreny is this: 10 rocks make a stick. If you need to borrow a stick, OK but it will be 11 rocks paid back. I just need to figure out how to make an ATM takes rocks and sticks.
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bknoll
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmmmmm......who would win this fight? Wall-Mart or Wall Street?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/15/business/15leonhardt.html?ex=1144900800&en=7869cba2eede600c&ei=5070
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Charlie Trie
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How 'bout we paddle up and have to play rock, scissors, paper to get service?

If you win the contest, you talk into a drive-through speaker-box to give your request to someone from India, who invariably tells you to walk into the woods and serve yourself.
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West End Piper
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great article Brad. Can you imagine if Walmart began selling fixed rate mortgages at say.......4%, for thirty years? They could probably afford to do it, by hiring all non-union workers to construct their banks and by paying their bank-tellers minimum wage, (with no benefits, of course)........I'm no fan of Walmart, but a 4% loan would sure take some of the sting out of my two house payments! Sign me up! Wink
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Conis
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charlie Trie wrote:
How 'bout we paddle up and have to play rock, scissors, paper to get service?

If you win the contest, you talk into a drive-through speaker-box to give your request to someone from India, who invariably tells you to walk into the woods and serve yourself.


If you can figure out out how to work in a phone gauntlet in the middle, you will have a loser-winner!
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