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The World Cannot Survive Alone Once Interferred With By Man

 
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Bruce Lord
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Joined: 18 May 2002
Posts: 106
Location: Grabill Indiana

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:49 pm    Post subject: The World Cannot Survive Alone Once Interferred With By Man Reply with quote

OK Last post on this subject. Doubt it.
Ya know I've spoken to and with a large amount of people about the world/global climate change and most don't believe there is a problem or laugh it off. One said "oh it won't happen in my lifetime." It's very scary trying to get the point across. Young people seem to have a real problem with believing anything could happen to our world the way we know it.
Sure the lakes need to be pumped out. I have built a beautiful home on one of them and plan on living there when I retire. But if we don't take the messages the earth and all scientists are sending us seriously we are in for trouble. From my studies we will be lucky to stop the snowballing effect we have started. If we think we should take care of our own little areas that would be great but how does one spread the word. I thought this would be a great place to start.

I am sorry to say but the answer is we have a bigger problem EVERYWHERE.

Our children won't be coming here, much less our grandchildren. If we don't cut our use of fossil fuels drastically in the next 5 years the results will be enormous.

So I think energy should be put toward the bigger picture rather then treading water.

I and my family have together cut our use of fossil fuels by 50% in the last 24 months. It has been amazingly simple and results with plenty of money in my pocket.

Just think.... If everyone that lives or owns property on Bob-lo could do that we would make headlines and would possibly begin a movement in the right direction. I could only wish. Probably dreaming. But this country has done amazing things.

Somehow we have to start this change.

Sorry but this is really the ONLY issue in my mind and I do not understand why it is not in everyones.
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Erica
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Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 61
Location: Toledo, Ohio

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, bottom line, how did you do it? Pass on the info, or "cut in half" is only a brag.
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Bruce Lord
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Joined: 18 May 2002
Posts: 106
Location: Grabill Indiana

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it has been pretty simple really took some work though as does anything that needs to be done.
First step installed corn burner in living room initial cost $4.000 that expense will be paid off after this heating season. No use of fossil fuel to heat home. Also quit using central air use small unit in one room set to 80.
Second replaced all light bulbs in house with flourescent curly bulbs. That cost mat take a little while to recoup but using them uses 66%percent less energy. If everyone in the United States did that to just one light it would have the same effect as taking a million cars of the roadways.
Third unplug TV's when not in use. They use 25% of their consumption when not in use.
Fourth I bought a lap top and quit using my old computer Lap tops use 90% less energy.
Fifth less trips to the island BUT stay longer perfect idea eah!
The next vehicle we buy will be the most fuel efficient model available. And I feel the most important thing is to convince a friend to do whatever is necessary to cut fossil fuel ussage. Realize the middle east would'nt be having so many wars and cause so much terror if they didn'nt have so much money. And we are the ones giving it to them. Pretty disgusting.


I have many more ideas just haven't got to them yet.

More Later?
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Ron Petersen
Lake Mary Muse
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Joined: 22 Aug 2002
Posts: 471
Location: Tipton, Iowa

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce what do you live in that you can save $4000.00 a year in heating - A tent??????? Shocked
My house isn't very efficient and the most I could ever spend at todays propane prices would be around $1500.00
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Bruce Lord
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Joined: 18 May 2002
Posts: 106
Location: Grabill Indiana

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK if you read my posts again they say in the last 24 monhs thats 2 years. The propane prices where I live were $1.89 per gallon last year projected to be $2.04 this season. With corn I use 2 bushels a day Jan. and Feb. less during better months. Thats $250 a month 12 months a year compared to $120 a month two months a year and less the other 3-4 months of the heating season. If you do the math I think I have already paid it off. By the way my propane furnace is a 94%efficient model. But the money I am saving here is not the issue its using less oil (propane is made from it). I agree my house is to big (3500 sq.ft.) but it has 14 inches of blow-in insulation and 5year old or newer windows if I can heat it that cheaply wih a resource that can be produced in 5-6 months whats the problem. Remember where fueling the wars in the middle east by using oil and propane. Where else would they get the money to buy guns and ammo. Why is are you guys so skeptical. It realy is a discomforting fact.
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Ron Petersen
Lake Mary Muse
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Joined: 22 Aug 2002
Posts: 471
Location: Tipton, Iowa

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce - I had to reread your post again - I didn't catch that you were talking about 2 years when you said $4000 instead of saying $2000 per year - Wasn't meaning to be cute, just a little confused about it. Rolling Eyes
I'm all for getting away from fuel cost too - I have booked my propane for the coming winter for $1.37 per gallon, paid within 10 days of delivery or it will cost 4 cents more if I pay later. We have an un-ending supply of dead elm trees in our area and will have for the next 10 years for sure - It is one of the cleanest burning and puts out as much heat as any I have seen. I actually used a just over 200 gallon of Propane last winter and most of that was for the hot water heater.
I am amazed at what some people spend to save money - many never to see a return on their investment - I think one of them might be these hybrid cars. We have an Olds Mini-van that averages 27 MPG and will get 30 mpg on the highway with a lot less investment and possibly less maintenance in the future.
I once owned a 1977 Volkswagon Diesel car that would always average over 50 mpg - The government made them change it to different EPA specs later, and dropped the mileage about 10 mpg?????? - I could drive across Iowa on the fuel it takes a Semi to get up to cruising speed on!!!!
Also owned a 1984 Toyota Tercel station wagon with 4 wheel drive that would easily get 40 mpg once!!! Where have all of these gone???????
Both of these vehicles were less than 1/3 the price of todays "mileage makers" - and you could do a lot of the work on them yourself.

Sorry about the confusion - I was getting ready to send you an insulation salesman!!! Laughing
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Rich
Bois & Grills Club
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Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Waterford, WI

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i just bought a civic hybrid and the mileage is 45.4 so far and is supposed to get better. i agree with bruce, any way we can use less or different fuel we should. funding people who hate us is disturbing.
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Ron Petersen
Lake Mary Muse
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Joined: 22 Aug 2002
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Location: Tipton, Iowa

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's great Rick - that will work - I know of several down here that are getting closer to mid 30's - not the same brand as yours
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Bruce Lord
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Joined: 18 May 2002
Posts: 106
Location: Grabill Indiana

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea I'm looking thinking there will be more and better soon, we'll see.


Ya know I hope you guys don't think I am nuts or being rude I'm just trying to do whats right for the future and my grandkids, if I ever have any.

Dread of what will happen unless we change, and the hope for what can happen if we do-- hopefully that will help us all fall in line and do what's right.


why do I feel alone on this......... anyone?


I looked for a different website but can't find a good one.

I would really appreciate help!
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Ron Petersen
Lake Mary Muse
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Joined: 22 Aug 2002
Posts: 471
Location: Tipton, Iowa

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're not alone - I think myself and many others want to do something too, but not sure what!! - I am going to turn 66 in a couple of months "Oh My God" and I hate to have to think of making a large investment to save money - Many times the investment doesn't ever pay for itself when you figure the whole picture, (initial cost, interest, depreciation, maintenance, resale, etc.) Sometimes it's hard for me to figure out if our leaders of the country are working for or against us - I have trouble understanding why we are spending Billions of dollars on a war we will probably never will win, instead of using that money for some good of some kind here at home to strengthen our own country. I am neither Republican or Democrat, but I feel that we are as poorly represented now as we ever have been in a long time.
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Spartan-1
Pines Paramour
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Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 356
Location: Portage, MI

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the current rate of fuel consumption there is only about 120 years worth of oil in the sands of Northern Canada, (FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD)!!!
To extract this oil would be costly, gas prices would be at 2.75 cents a gallon for the oil companies to make extremely large profits (SOUND FAMILIAR???) This does save us .25 cents a gallon and this is with ZERO help from the MIDDLE EAST!!!
BIODIESEL.....GREAT.....CORN....GREAT....ALTERNATIVES???
There is a reason things are not going as fast as they should with this technology!!!
Oil companies won't have it, This would kill the profits they are getting right now, without doing anything to help the world issues!!!

Earth TEMP.
TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF THE PLANET, NOT THE LAST 200 HUNDRED YEARS!!!
WE ARE A BURP IN THE LIFE OF THIS GREAT PLANET!!!
WE CAN DO THINGS NOW FOR OUR GREAT, GREAT, GREAT, GREAT, GREAT, GREAT GRANKIDS, THE TEMP. IS STILL GOING TO RISE, WE ARE STILL IN ALL REALITY COMING OUT OF AN ICE AGE!!!
Do what we must, I still can't haul cement in a hybrid, Ferry to island won't be rowed or sailed, and we won't quit going to the island.
Are we all using electricity on the island, or candles, if you have a second home that burns fossil fuels you should get rid of it to help out the situation. Are you trying to help the environment or your pocket!!!
I doubt most of you that say you are cutting back to help, is to help yourselves and not the environment!!! Did you by that hybrid to save money or help the planet??? (Money here is the issue I believe) SAD!!!
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theeislandgirl
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Joined: 04 Jan 2003
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Location: Texas

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:50 pm    Post subject: land Reply with quote

Bruce .... you are not alone here ..
I am with you on this one ..
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Rich
Bois & Grills Club
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Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Waterford, WI

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biodiesel and ethanol are already in the works and will be a huge deal for our economy and our environment. The infrastructure is being created as we speak. Oil companies will begin to loosen their grip on our way of life. These are great developments and I am puzzled by the negativity of some of the so called tree huggers. Questioning the motives behind buying a hybrid is pointless. Questioning the validity of alternative cleaner burning fuels (that are domestic!) is ridiculous. If we as Americans get out
of the victim role we can change anything. Simply put, collectively we are the most powerful people on this planet. Our problem is lack of unity on any given subject.
Spartan, what's sad isn't my hybrid or the guy burning corn for heat, it's your attitude. (Biodiesel can haul your cement and run Curt's boat).
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Conis
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Joined: 15 Jan 2004
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Location: My New National ID Forehead Tatoo

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heres an energy saving tip: ON DEMAND HOT WATER!

Years ago, I replaced a 30 gallon electric tank heater with an on-demand LP water heater. Results, electric bills cut by 50%, LP increase not even measurable. On demand water heaters have been greatly improved and cost about half of what they did even 10 years ago.

When I rebuilt in 97 (fire), I installed a 40 gallon tank type LP water heater. THAT FUEL SUCKING ENERGY PIG IS COMING OUT OF THERE! Back to an on demand.

I estimated my annual LP use at around 600-700 gallons a year, including home heating and a gas dryer. The LP tank water heater, best case, accounts for 300 gallons of LP or $450@$1.50gal, just to keep a tank of hot water "ready", 24/7. Or, 40-50% of my annual LP gas use?

Payback would be about 2 years. Whatever. That is $$$ going into energy conservation rather than up the chimney.

LP is still energy efficient as compared to electric. But that may change.

Next to a furnace, tank type water heaters are the biggest fuel hogs in your house. Dinosaurs as well.

For those of you unfamiliar with "on demand" water heaters, they are small and normally wall mounted units. When a hot water tap is opened, they sense water moving through a core within the unit and a flame ignites and heats the water as it passes through the core "on demand". And shuts off when the tap is closed.

New-improved models are electronically controlled to sense water pressure and adjust water temperature to a set limit (adjust flame). 95% efficient, totally reliable and predictable.

Geo Thermal heating is something else to look at. Another subject.

Comment: I have used the term "its all about the money" to the point of overuse. But it is true. Before individuals will look seriously at energy conservation, they have see what NOT looking at it costs them personally. Call it an incentive or $ dangling carrot. Conservation = a "pay raise". And then it is a concept with some meat on it.

As long as we remain hostages to BIG OIL and Foreign oil and a government which supports this rip off, we are on our own. Considering the interests and backgrounds of our highest and "theoretically elected" leaders, how would one expect this situation to be other than what it has become?
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Conis
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just read this article on BP/Amocos ramp up into Biofuels. It IS coming but controlled by who is the scary question. I suppose the upside is the petro dollars NOT leaving the USA by the billions.

We should have been there a decade ago. The reason(s) we aren't couldn't be more obvious.
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Spartan-1
Pines Paramour
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Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 356
Location: Portage, MI

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich!!!
Back to our earlier posts!!!
I think you are reading a bit much into my horrible attitude. IF, you bought your biodiesel strickly for the environment and to help curb you/us depending on Middle East oil, Great, I applaud you on that. Burning corn for heat, pellet stoves, recycle, I agree with all. I just don't think most people are like you, they strickly care about the money that they may save and are not thinking of the issue!!!
Until the government steps forward and puts the technology we already have to use and stops with the OIL bussiness we are fitting an uphill battle that they can make sure we don't win!!!
New regime coming, we will see what happens!!!
Happy posting and greetings from island SCROUGE!
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Conis
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I just don't think most people are like you, they strickly care about the money that they may save and are not thinking of the issue!!!


Bingo! all about the money! Most wont consider fuel conservation without a financial incentive.

Quote:
Until the government steps forward and puts the technology we already have to use and stops with the OIL bussiness we are fitting an uphill battle that they can make sure we don't win!!!


I am not so sure there is any difference between "Big Oil" and our government. One in the same. Look at the interests of Bush and Cheney and how and why they got elected. For that matter, no one is absolutely certain Bush was ever elected the first time around?

About the only thing we can do is fight back on a personal level. Burn corn, go solar... ride a bike. CONSERVE. Invest $$$ in personal conservation strategy even if pay back takes 2-3 years... or give the same $$$ to the oil companies by sticking status quo.

Some might argue that a solution is to "invest in the oil companies". Reap some of the profits. Ethically, that doesn't work for me. I won't support a rip off. Nor does it work for those living paycheck to paycheck to make ends meet. Nothing left to invest.

My friends, we have a mess on our hands and two years left to go.
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Kevin Gibbons
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conis I think you are hitting the nail right on the head. We need to vote the republicians out of office. And I hate to say this I used to be one not any more there big business platform got to big for me.
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:30 am    Post subject: Earth issues Reply with quote

Bruce Lord...My hat is off to you.

Kevin, I actually agree with you on the republican issues. I'm a one issue voter...environmental records or platforms. After all, what else is important if the earth is not the number one issue?

Global warming is not a "Burp" in the continueum of time. Watch "Inconvenient Truth" and disbelieve the science if you want. It is not a "burp" in time...it is a bullet...and perhaps it has already been fired.

Can't wait to get back to BBI and enjoy the air, the plants, the sky, the water, friends, and those that either agree or disagree with me.
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