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ATV ISSUES (again)
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Aleta_Jervis
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually that suggestion was made during last week's General Plan meeting: all motorized vehicles would have to carry a TWP plate so that they could be readily identified from a distance. This would help for reporting purposes.

My sense was that there is still a feeling of tolerance for ATV's among property owners. Although virtually all readily admit that things got out of control this summer. (Some with family cottages going back 50-60+ years think that there are several things out of control on BBI.)

I missed the meeting today. What went on?
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:55 pm    Post subject: conis Reply with quote

Conis
Do you have a picture of you in the mug shot area ??

I wonder WHAT you really do look like !!!
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boisblancgirl
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know exactly what the solution would be, but I do know that when GW does catch and ticket someone, they get all up in arms about it. I know everyone that comes here thinks they're in a different world where no federal, state, or local laws apply. I personally think they need to be enforced a little more strict. There's just too many more vehicles and ATV's coming here each year, and you're right............the 2 don't mix very well on the county roads. It's just a way of life and a fact of living that when there is congestion with any given thing, it generates more and strict rules. You can't go anywhere without them, and Bob-Lo is no different.

Signs aren't the answer!! There are signs all over here and either people can't read, or don't think they apply to them, or are ripped down and destroyed. I think strict enforcement, at this point, is the beginning of a solution.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Signs aren't the answer!! There are signs all over here and either people can't read, or don't think they apply to them, or are ripped down and destroyed. I think strict enforcement, at this point, is the beginning of a solution.


After thinking it through, I agree. We don't need a BBI do/dont list on a bill board at the ferry dock.

I am all for enforcement. No arguement there. The problem is that there only one deputy and it is a big island. My fear is that GW will burn out responding to one complaint after another. And from that point recommendations get made and ATVs get banned.

Thats exactly what happened on Beaver after it got out of hand and accidents increased and islanders got fed up. To which, they have a new deputy on that island which goes strictly by the book and is "zero tolerance" to the point of harrasment. I know this because I have a good friend with a cottage there who had a 4 wheeler.

Maybe the idea of twp issued plates/permits is one that ought to be looked at a little more closely? Get them from the twp hall during business hours, "season resident" or "daily/weekly visitor". Every ATV that comes on the island, comes across on the ferry. Maybe that would be a good interception point for a phamplet or place for a sign reminding atv owners a twp permit is required? Just a suggestion.

Operating an ATV is a privledge. If there were required twp permits where operators were also given printed information when they got a permit, then "ignorance isn't an excuse". Likewise, if they ignored or refused to get a township permit, a staunch fine and/or impoundment doesn't seem unreasonable.

So there is a realistic alternative to "anything goes" without penalizing everyone. I think it safe to say that there will be more and more cars and ATVs on the island in years ahead. Maybe the time has come to prevent bigger problems forthcoming? Sometimes doing nothing isn't a good solution, either.

Having expressed my ideas, I think I will subtract myself from further discussions on the subject.
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Dan Reynolds
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the permit idea. Buy a temporary permit or an annual permit. The cost would have to be something reasonable so it doesn't unnecessarily penalize residents and others who use their ATVs for more "practical" purposes. Or, make the permit free to obtain, like campfire permits. The main benefit is that it creates a sense of accountability on the part of the rider, or the rider's parents. It could also give GW a better idea of who'll be riding on the Island, and (approximately) where, at any given time.

Dan
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lighthouse
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A local governmental unit does not have the authority to license or require permits for motor vehicles. Only the Secetary of State has that authority. Basically only two options are available; 1) heavy enforcement of existing ordinances and state law in regards to ATV's or banning them altogether on public roads. If the accident rate continues to increase as it has over the last couple of years, the township probably will be forced to opt for the second. A few people screw it up for the majority!!!!
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Dan Reynolds
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lighthouse wrote:
A few people screw it up for the majority!!!!

I agree wholeheartedly.

Townships manage things like dog licensing (based on state requirements)... Any chance that logic could be applied to motor vehicles of this sort?
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Conis
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK.

Can the twp require that ATV-Orvs be not "licensed" but registered to owners? Semantics? ATVs are not defined as "motor vehicles".

I went through this BS having a Kawasaki Mule recertified as a street legal vehicle. It had to be inspected and a title was issued. Prior to that it was classed as an ATV. I had to add a lot of stuff to it to pass an inspection.

I did this to get the DNR off my back and vice versa, using it in the Pigeon River state forest where ATVs are strictly not permitted but licensed vehicles are.And with this came cost of plates and insurance.

Legal issues and definations worth looking into?
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Kevin Gibbons
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the permitt deal for ORV's. I think there is a way to regester them with the Island or permitt them as Mackinaw Island does with bikes they liciense them for the road. I do belive that it could be done. Now is there liability for the township for this I don't know. I'm sure there is. I like the permitt for a fee, but regestering them with out a fee is also good, gives GW something to go by who has them running at what day or week.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guess what? I understand there has been yet another 4wheeler wreck. Guess where? On Rocky Road. Missed the corner heading north and hit a tree. Air lifted out with broken bones. Tickets were issued.

This information comes second hand courtesy of Dan Zanoli, my neighbor.

If you know anything further, post it or PM me.

This underscores both the need for some 4 wheeler accountability by registration and better cell phone service on the island.

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Will be on Friday, 4 oclock. How could I miss this weekend?
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Squeaky
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More accountability and YES on the better cell phone service. I hope the person is ok. I remember years ago there was someone that hit a tree after leaving the bar.
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cal'sangel9
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow, i cant imagine why he wouldve hit a tree after leaving the bar. this is rediculous. why do people have to go so dang fast? honestly, if they want to go fast and jump their quads, go to a track somewhere. bbi is not the place. yes, the machines are capable of it, and yes, i enjoy having a good time and pushing my abilities and the limits sometimes, but i'm not dumb enough to do it on the public roads. sure i've gone faster than i should've and jumped a quad, but i was on our friends private trails and properties, where the only person i couldve possibly put in danger was myself. i dont understand why they think the road is there for them to ride so half-minded. all i know is that if it comes down to banning the use of atv's on bbi, i'll be very upset. people need to realize that bbi is actually a very beautiful place. how can you enjoy all the scenary and views when you're going 45 down the road? you cant, so i hope that as a whole, whoever keeps getting in wrecks and speeding and causing trouble will realize that they're gonna ruin it for everyone. i'm sorry for venting, but i'm sick of logging onto here and reading about how someone else hit a tree, or someone else was speeding. that's it...and one last thought to ponder next time you wanna play Speed Racer on the roads, if you lose control and hit a tree, the tree will win. they dont move easy, neither do cars and trucks 4 times the size of you and your machine. so respect the roads, respect the people, and respect the speed limit. ok, now that's it...
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Bruce Lord
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wish I were you Conis. I'm on the 11:30. Better than 6am I guess. I will probably stop and make your acquaintance. If your accepting visitors.
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Cal'sAngel
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cal'sangel9 wrote:
wow, i cant imagine why he wouldve hit a tree after leaving the bar. this is rediculous. why do people have to go so dang fast? honestly, if they want to go fast and jump their quads, go to a track somewhere. bbi is not the place. yes, the machines are capable of it, and yes, i enjoy having a good time and pushing my abilities and the limits sometimes, but i'm not dumb enough to do it on the public roads. sure i've gone faster than i should've and jumped a quad, but i was on our friends private trails and properties, where the only person i couldve possibly put in danger was myself. i dont understand why they think the road is there for them to ride so half-minded. all i know is that if it comes down to banning the use of atv's on bbi, i'll be very upset. people need to realize that bbi is actually a very beautiful place. how can you enjoy all the scenary and views when you're going 45 down the road? you cant, so i hope that as a whole, whoever keeps getting in wrecks and speeding and causing trouble will realize that they're gonna ruin it for everyone. i'm sorry for venting, but i'm sick of logging onto here and reading about how someone else hit a tree, or someone else was speeding. that's it...and one last thought to ponder next time you wanna play Speed Racer on the roads, if you lose control and hit a tree, the tree will win. they dont move easy, neither do cars and trucks 4 times the size of you and your machine. so respect the roads, respect the people, and respect the speed limit. ok, now that's it...


I have to agree with my cousin here, unless I have my jeep with me (which is rare) I travel my quad. Its part of what makes the Island great. It would be a sad day to see quads outlawed on the roads.
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Cal'sAngel
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conis wrote:
Guess what? I understand there has been yet another 4wheeler wreck. Guess where? On Rocky Road. Missed the corner heading north and hit a tree. Air lifted out with broken bones. Tickets were issued.

This information comes second hand courtesy of Dan Zanoli, my neighbor.

If you know anything further, post it or PM me.

This underscores both the need for some 4 wheeler accountability by registration and better cell phone service on the island.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Will be on Friday, 4 oclock. How could I miss this weekend?


Friday at 4? no kidding? thats the boat I will be on as well.
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Squeaky
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This person that hit the tree years ago was not on a quad, this person was driving a car.
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Dan Reynolds
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Over the years, there have been numerous car-tree encounters after leaving the bar... I remember hearing about at least three.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah well...

I am repeating second hand info. The guy who ran it in the trees was not a kid, or an "islander" but in his 40s . Came onto the island totally "waxed", went to the bar and was refused and "waxed" his 4 wheeler into some cedars by the cement block camp at the curve on R Road. He left , airlifted, with "bones sticking out of his chest".

As I further understand this story, This seriously injured person was loaded in a pickup and taken to the tavern where a call for help was made. WHY WAS THIS?

Who doesn't get it? Which problem is the priority?
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boisblancgirl
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not heard this story at all!! But I will check into it and find out if it's true.
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Dan Reynolds
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just don't even know what to say. So stupid, yet so familiar.

You can just imagine their little conversations downstate, or wherever - "I know this place, and there's nothing and nobody there, and the trails are awesome, and you can just go and mess around all day and nobody bothers you..."

duh.

Maybe people like this think they are only putting themselves in danger. But I have had several close calls with 4-wheelers coming around a curve toward me at a high rate of speed, semi-uncontrolled, and - even if my vehicle and I are totally unharmed in the resulting accident - I sure as hell don't want to be the guy that hit the 4-wheeler and its rider. Don't put me, or anyone else, in that position.

Of course I hope this guy will be okay. On the other hand, it seems he was determined to learn this very simple lesson the hard way.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boisblancgirl

Please do. This was supposed to have happened on Monday afternoon. NO EMS involved.

Rumors are easily started. I am the messenger relying on Dan Z's reposrt of the incedent.

TD/C
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heatseeker8
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets just pray that this person survives and can lead a normal life after his accident before all else. Theres a time and place for the rhetoric being posted here. Conis..are you stirring the pot with this post? I guess i dont understand why this is news?

I would like honest opinions about this theory: How do YOU think people on HORSE and BUGGY felt when they had to start sharing roads with cars?

Probably didnt like to well..is my opinion..so just because like me you own a vehicle with doors and seat belts means you "own" the road? Thats the vibe I'm getting from your posts. Not singling anyone out..just the general vibe.
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Dan Reynolds
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

heatseeker8 wrote:
Conis..are you stirring the pot with this post? I guess i dont understand why this is news?

I would like honest opinions about this theory: How do YOU think people on HORSE and BUGGY felt when they had to start sharing roads with cars?

Probably didnt like to well..is my opinion..so just because like me you own a vehicle with doors and seat belts means you "own" the road? Thats the vibe I'm getting from your posts. Not singling anyone out..just the general vibe.

Shocked Question

What the...???
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Conis
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

heatseeker8 wrote:
Lets just pray that this person survives and can lead a normal life after his accident before all else. Theres a time and place for the rhetoric being posted here. Conis..are you stirring the pot with this post? I guess i dont understand why this is news?


I understand the guy will be allright, fortunately. The other good news is that he didn't hit a pedestrian or another vehicle. How fast do you have to be going to total a 4 wheeler? Sobriety issues beyond this?

heatseeker8 wrote:
I would like honest opinions about this theory: How do YOU think people on HORSE and BUGGY felt when they had to start sharing roads with cars? Moot point: Both were being used as transportation.
Probably didnt like to well..is my opinion..so just because like me you own a vehicle with doors and seat belts means you "own" the road? Thats the vibe I'm getting from your posts. Not singling anyone out..just the general vibe.


Here's a news flash: licensed motor vehicles DO "own the road". If this sort of careless operation continues, the cars are going to win and the 4 wheelers will be banned. I would hate to see this happen.

If someone wants to ride in an ORV only desiginated area, Fine. They assume the same risks as all others doing likewise. Crashing is an option. Personally, you couldn't pay me to ride in one. Same applies to state snomo trails. Moron factor is too high.

You are getting the correct vibe, I am stirring the pot. I don't ride my 4 wheeler 40-50 mph up and down the two tracks. Nor do I perceive BBI as a motorsport park. 4 wheelers on the county roads are a privledge (at least so far), not an entitlement.

These sentiments are not strictly mine. Why is this news? It was a fairly serious accident and IS NOT good news for the 4 wheeler advocates on the island. It just tops the list. What will happen when there is a fatality involving someone besides the ATV operator?

Whats your solution?
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doug miller
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ORV issue reminds me of the summer (1974) I worked at Warren Dunes State Park in southwest Michigan. The Park has huge sand dunes and waterfront on Lake Michigan.

Hanggliding was in its infancy and the Park allowed people to hangglide from the top of the dunes. The problem was that there was a huge parking area at the bottom of the dunes (between the dunes and the lake) and hanggliders would too often land in the parking area. I remember one time watching as a hangglider slammed into a moving car.

Anyway, there were lots of injuries, including broken backs and other serious injuries. I don't think there were any fatalities. But it was enough that the Park eventually prohibited hanggliding.

When the problems with ORVs reach a tipping point, some government entity will no doubt act to regulate them.

My question is this: I see lots of ORVs coming over on the ferry. But where, other than on a person's own land, can the ORVs be legally operated?
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