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Change of Date, Public Hearing
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:46 am    Post subject: Example of a Point of Issue Reply with quote

Here is one point that can be pointed at.
The last paragraph of the "Grounds" letter does not relate to the Open Meetings Act. It actually relates to the Political "Activities By Public Employees Act 169 of 1976. That act says that a public employee can engage in political activities except "while on the job". I know for a fact where the letter to voters was developed. It was not in any public meeting and no quorum. By the way. It is the State Department of Labor that is supposed to hold the hearing in that case for the people being persecuted against the local government to determine if a violation occurred.

So it appears that the persecuted three have every right to take this whole mess to the State.
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:57 pm    Post subject: Good Info Reply with quote

Mike and Cindy...thanks for the very clear explanations. I will be there.

NOTE: These meetings can be recorded!!! If you have a digital recording device, bring it. I'm trying to round one up for the occasion but I do not have one yet.
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Uncle Steve
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

#evil #evil I recall awhile back .. someone had a web cam running on the Island showimg the snow.. I THINK the town hall has a wireless connection... Could someone with a laptop and webcam broadcast the meeting ?? Or is this to much technology... Conis get with it.. " Get er Done " It would be nice to have a visual record of He Said She Said..
OR vidio tape the meeting..
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Conis
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uncle Steve wrote:
#evil #evil I recall awhile back .. someone had a web cam running on the Island showimg the snow.. I THINK the town hall has a wireless connection... Could someone with a laptop and webcam broadcast the meeting ?? Or is this to much technology... Conis get with it.. " Get er Done " It would be nice to have a visual record of He Said She Said..
OR vidio tape the meeting..


Way ahead of you Steve... You want a DVD?
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Uncle Steve
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

#evil #evil #evil Yes Please, in exchange.. I will move a rock in your
honor...
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Conis
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks there, "Rocky".

Can I order three granites, a cryptonite and a "big pink one"?
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Uncle Steve
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

#evil #evil "
Quote:
Can I order three granites
,(in stock)
Quote:
a cryptonite
(on back order)
Quote:
and a "big pink one"?
(loaded and ready to go )" Very Happy
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:35 am    Post subject: Getting down to Business Reply with quote

Getting back to the hearing, I am going to be kind (to the others) and put my letter to the township board on this site. That way they can form their rebuttals to it in advance of the hearing.
--------------------------------------------------

To the Bois Blanc Township Board

Comments for
The Public Hearing to Discuss Removal of Three Planning Members (the three)
November 3, 2006

Have you heard the phrase ďPlease donít take this personally, Iím doing this based on principleĒ? Whenever somebody says that, they might as well be asking the grass not to grow. When someone messes with somebody elseís life, that person will take it personally. People like to deny their emotions but we all have them, good and bad.

Planning & Zoning messes with peopleís lives when requests are denied. People take it personally. I can understand, because lately people have been messing with my life and I do take it personally. I believe the township board members, who voted for the rezone, took it personally when three landowners petitioned for a referendum vote. They may deny their emotions, but they are ordinary people too, and have emotions, good and bad.

So, to be clear, I believe that the real reason that we are having this hearing is because, the three, who pushed for a referendum vote on the rezone, messed with certain peoplesí lives and made them mad. Emotions are a big part of this hearing. That will probably be denied.

Now for the contradiction in everything I have just said. You, the board, are supposed to base your decision on law, not emotion. Here we go again asking the grass not to grow.

Here is the law part:
The grounds for dismissal letter make many assertions without proof, allegations. The nonfeasance part is only a few things that Loren Gibbons wants included in the zoning ordinance and was not a condition for passing the zoning ordinance. Those very small things do not warrant dismissing people. The malfeasance part of it says, IF you did this or IF you did that. Those are not grounds for anything. There are no facts to back anything written in the grounds for dismissal letter.
I sent personal letters to Shelby Newhouse and Joan Schroka about this meeting. I also delivered a copy to Cheryl Gahn. I asked them to base their decision on some questions. Are the grounds for dismissal true or not, and can they be proven? Do you have evidence to show that the three intentionally avoided the Open Meetings Act? I quoted some parts of the Open Meetings Act. I asked that they base their decisions on those kinds of things, not emotions.

Now for the emotional side to this:
I feel that the three, called for dismissal, have offended all those involved in the rezone issue. So now, those involved in the rezone issue, are persecuting the three. You know there is a popular saying, ďwhat goes around comes around.Ē

Loren may try to produce facts at this meeting. That would be refreshing but remember the chain of events that led up to this day. The rezone issue has not pleased Loren, and some others who have a self-interest in that property they want rezoned. I believe that is the motivation behind Loren doing what he is doing. I also believe it to be a means to an end. Get them out, and get others in, to do as Loren and others wish. To undo what Lani, Bill and Fran have done. If Loren, or others, produces facts, those facts should be viewed with suspicion. Remember, the same people that want them dismissed are the same people that are probably mad at them. They may be biased. Those emotions will probably be denied.

Without supporting evidence, this would be more like a vote of confidence for your supervisor. To vote to dismiss the three is a vote for Lorenís actions. A vote not to dismiss is a vote against Lorenís actions. He must be very confident that you will vote in lock step with him, otherwise he would not have asked for this hearing. Could it be that he thinks you are also mad at the three and will base your vote on emotions and not the law?

I hope that you three board members can see through what I consider an act of passion on Lorenís part and vote not to dismiss Lani, Bill and Fran. Vote against Lorenís actions.

I know that you can boot them out with no real proof that they have done anything wrong. That would not be voting with your head. That would obviously be a vote of passion, is called, being biased, and is unlawful. Just think how that would make you look to the citizens of Bois Blanc.

If they were dismissed without any real proof, the township would be violating Act 169 of 1976, Political Activities by Public Employees. The three would have the right to take this issue to the State Department of Labor to determine if a violation was made by the township.


Michael J. White, Sr.
Thursday, October 26, 2006
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Last edited by mikewhite on Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:12 am    Post subject: Rocks Reply with quote

There are obviously some "Rocks" on the twp board.

I will donate money for legal actions against the perpetrators. The island future must be in the hands of those who love the island for what it is, and not for what 3 or 4 money grubbing idiots want it to be.

Can anyone spell CONFLICT OF INTEREST?

Legal action against Loren Gibbons and the others is necessary...period. Forget the dismissals, the illegal rezone attempt, etc. START LEGAL PROCEDINGS NOW. THE CRIME HAS BEEN COMMITTED. THE TWP STEPPED OVER THE LINE AND, IN MY OPINION, SHOULD BE PROSECUTED, ASAP! Just use Loren Gibbons ltr for starters.

Mike is a great person. My head would have exploded by now. But I think the time for "niceities" is in the past. I vote prosecute 'em while the BS is fresh.
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:31 am    Post subject: Township wisdom Reply with quote

I want to point out that the township decided not to decide the issue of dismissal at the public hearing. The public hearing is only a formality required by law.

They have decided to vote on dismissal at the next regular township meeting. What I really want to point out is that the regular meeting is one day after the vote on the rezone issue. November 8th at 4PM.

That is the meeting where the heat will be less and not so many people will be watching the action.

If they are dismissed, it may also be the meeting where you would find out who will replace them.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That is the meeting where the heat will be less and not so many people will be watching the action.


Hmmmm.. "The old bait and switch" Lets have a meeting about the meeting. Kind of like a shell game? I need a chalkboard or flow chart or something.
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bknoll
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And that means that Mike is correct in stating that the "others" are watching. They are obviously aware of an effort being made to expose the way in which they wanted to go about this thing.
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:26 am    Post subject: Prosecute, Period Reply with quote

If this rezone agreement is between township members and private individuals, then it is illegal.

Could we get enough on 'em to serve them at this first meeting? Why mambie pambie around. Let's serve Gibbons and gang legal papers.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:47 pm    Post subject: We need a desserter Reply with quote

We need someone from the Others to dessert the dark side and come into the light. I hate to blow your bubble, John, but all we have is their actions. You would need evidence to show a conspiracy between private individuals and people on the twp. board. But I love where your heart is.
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:56 pm    Post subject: Darn it Reply with quote

Thanks, Mike, for the info.
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NJean
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Video taping the meeting is a great idea!
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:38 am    Post subject: Call the press Reply with quote

Call the press!
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Conis
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:21 am    Post subject: Re: Call the press Reply with quote

mikewhite wrote:
Call the press!


Which newspaper?
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:55 pm    Post subject: A change in the air. Reply with quote

Hold off calling the Traverse City Record-Eagle. I feel a change in the air. Did anyone notice that there was no posting in a local paper for a public hearing?

UNLESS POSTED OTHERWISE, THE HEARING IS STILL A GO!
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Last edited by mikewhite on Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:15 pm    Post subject: ...I take it back... Reply with quote

Prosecute no one. I take back my previous statements. Just as there are no grounds to dismiss "the three" there are no grounds to dismiss twp members.

Hearing only fringe information confuses the likes of me. Perhaps the Fri meeting will clean some of the bugs off the windshield.

I'm not John Kerry. I can say, yeah, I was stupid. I'm always happy to upgrade my thinking.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:54 pm    Post subject: marking Time Reply with quote

What is happening is that the lawyers for the Three have sent a response letter to the township. The Three are "marking time" waiting to see if the meeting will still be held on Nov. 3rd, or not, based on what is in the letter.

I hesitated to say much because my "boss" told me not to. I guess she thinks the township should know the letter came before you all do. My personal opinion is I think it would be way cool if you all knew before the township sees the letter.

STAY TUNED!
UNLESS POSTED HERE, THE HEARING IS STILL A GO!
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Last edited by mikewhite on Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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Conis
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike,

I am waiting to see if the meeting is on or off or ??? what. This is like Texas Holdem or something?

I have condensed my "objection letter" to one page, "just the facts" sans editorial comments, to be sent on cue. No strategy or timing; things seem to change daily. I am not sure this situation, is really at?

I am assuming that since no notice of a public hearing has been issued, it has been further deferred or ???? I am sitting tight. All I have is a "letter of record" I want read/recorded should a dismissal announcement meeting actually take place.

I am a little rusty with protocall. Am I correct in assuming that any meeting without prior public announcemnt is null/void?
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Last edited by Conis on Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:13 pm    Post subject: Up to Loren Reply with quote

Loren can go ahead and have the meeting if he wants to. It is up to him and the Others. But it appears that they may have forgetten to follow procedure. That would mean that if the meeting is held as scheduled, due process rights would be violated. The "grounds" issues are also addressed in the lawyer letter. The ball is now in Loren Gibbons hands. We are waiting to see if he, after consultation with his friends, will continue.

UNLESS POSTED HERE, THE HEARING IS STILL A GO!
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Last edited by mikewhite on Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:39 am    Post subject: Lawyer Stuff Reply with quote

The letter to the township is five pages long and is a masterpiece.

Remember, originally everyone was supposed to go to a meeting where the township was going to select 2 or 3 P&Z people for dismissal. The unnamed 2 or 3 were then to be dismissed without any reason given to them prior to the meeting. In other words, a hanging.

To save time and money for everyone, the Three's lawyer sent a letter to the township explaining the proper procedure. That prompted Gibbons to send a letter to the Three giving notice and the "grounds" letter I posted here. Gibbons also moved the date and changed the meeting name from special, to public hearing.

Now, the Three's lawyers had the information needed from Gibbons so they could respond to his allegations. That is why I call it the response letter.

I have removed the first paragraph of the response letter from this post at the request of the Three. Sorry.

So the township has been helped along the way by the Three to get it right and they still can't do it. I also want to say that it was mentioned on this site that the "grounds" letter was not posted so that the public would have information to make an intelligent "comment" for the hearing. That was also a help to the township, to get this over with. Soon after that mentioning on this site, it got posted in a few places, but not in a newspaper.

If the township comes back and says that the three are stalling, you will all know that it is BS.

UNLESS POSTED OTHERWISE, THE HEARING IS STILL A GO, TOMORROW NIGHT!
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:03 am    Post subject: two things to do Reply with quote

Up early with coffee by my side. Looking forward to doing two things today.

1. Put up big sign in the Pines that says - Please Vote NO On Rezone.

2. Go to meeting and see what Loren has cooked up. To have a meeting, with no real evidence to support what he is doing, makes me think that possibly something is going to be cooked up.
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