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BBI TOWN HALL, VOL 1.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uncle Steve wrote:
Exclamation Wink Cool I understand two new members have been appointed.. What say you..
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:45 pm    Post subject: Board Reply with quote

Humm I am wondering why a quest can make comments on posts ....

Well anyway ....who ever you are ....


I AGREE WITH YOU !!!!!!!!!!
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:53 pm    Post subject: post Reply with quote

OPPS !!!

I was agreeing on the Quest's comments made on page one .....
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:22 am    Post subject: I would reserve judgement. Reply with quote

Yes it smells bad. But who knows, these people may be great in the job.

They may ignore their own business interests for the good of all. Have faith. Lets not condemn without a reason. They may be stepping up because they think they can do good for Bois Blanc.

Business should be represented. It would have been "less smelly" if it had been retired business people. Less chance of temptation in that case.

The pot to pick out of is very small here. Loren may not have had the opportunity to choose retired business people. Who knows, they may have been his only choice. Not many people want to be in the public eye.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:50 am    Post subject: Request for Opinion Reply with quote

In the hands of the Michigan Attorney General.

REQUEST FOR AN ATTORNEY GENERAL OPINION
WHEN TOWNSHIP PLANNING MEMBERS ARE REMOVED, WHICH LAW APPLIES?
When a planning commission is exercising the authority of a zoning board before the effective date of the MICHIGAN ZONING ENABLING ACT 110 of 2006, and the zoning commission is the planning commission of the local unit of government on July 1, 2006 when that law took effect, what act should the local unit of government use to remove members from the planning commission?

The Planning Commission of Bois Blanc Township has operated as both a planning commission and a zoning board for years as allowed under the Township Planning Act of 1959, Sec. 11 [MCL125.331]. Recently, two members of Bois Blanc’s planning commission were removed from their jobs because three members of the township board were displeased with legal and political actions taken by those people. The township based their actions on the Township Planning Act 168 of 1959, Sec. 4 (2) [MCL125.324] that says:

All members of the planning commission shall be appointed by the township supervisor with the approval of the township board. Members may be removed by the township supervisor, after a hearing, with the approval of the township board.

The township had a public hearing on Nov. 3, 2006 and voted to dismiss them at a regular meeting on Nov. 8, 2006. The two members of planning were removed without any proof of wrongdoing on their part.

I believe that the township board may have used the wrong state law as their basis for dismissal because on July 1, 2006, the new Michigan Zoning Enabling Act 110 of 2006 came into effect. In it, under Article III, ZONING COMMISSION, Sec. 301 (1), (2) and (9) [MCL125.3301] it says:

(1) A planning commission exercising the authority of a zoning board before the effective date of this act may continue to exercise that authority subject to this act. [Emphasis Added]

(2) …the zoning commission shall be the planning commission of the local unit of government.

(9) The legislative body shall provide for the removal of a member of the zoning commission for misfeasance, malfeasance or nonfeasance in office upon written charges and after public hearing.


If the Bois Blanc Planning Commission is subject to the new Michigan Zoning Enabling act, then I would think that it would also be subject to Sec. 301(9) [MCL125.3301(9)].

Therefore, sir, I request that the Attorney General make an opinion. Which act should the township have used? Were they correct in using the Township Planning Act 168 of 1959, or should they have based their actions on the Michigan Zoning Enabling Act 110 of 2006?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Mike.(1) A planning commission exercising the authority of a zoning board before the effective date of this act may continue to exercise that authority subject to this act. [Emphasis Added]


THE WORD "may :IS PERMISSIVE, NOT A DIRECTIVE .. So the AGs opinion will be very interesting.. Thanks for taking the time and making the effort.. Give Loni our Greetings from Kyu Hui and Steve
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve.

I know you have some expertise in this area having sat on the zoning board in this (my) county... Might you clarify your statement? I am curious.

Quote:
A planning commission exercising the authority of a zoning board before the effective date of this act may continue to exercise that authority subject to this act.


What authority is being exercised? Continuance of being a zoning/planning commission?

This implies that boards in existance prior to the revision made in 2006 are grandfathered in and may continue to operate status quo, under the prior statute? That the revision applied to newly established boards, only?

????

It seems to me that if the motion to dismiss were initated prior to the revision change date but carried beyond that date to completion, then it would grandfather. Otherwise the new law applies?

But what do I know.
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Uncle Steve
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wink Terry,, It is only my opinion, but I would say you have hit the operant verbiage.. in you last paragraph.. " PROBABLY " grandfathered ..
.. When ever legislators allow the word " May " they are purposely leaving a great big LOOP hole for the courts to settle at a later date.. But , that's why we have an A. G. and the court system.. Mike has done the right thing in asking for a determination.. One way or the Other.

I know that we always used what ever suited our intention. (Mecosta Co. Planning Com.)
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:38 pm    Post subject: board Reply with quote

it smells bad. But who knows, these people may be great in the job.

They may ignore their own business interests for the good of all. Have faith. Lets not condemn without a reason. They may be stepping up because they think they can do good for Bois Blanc.
Mike I did agree with the quest on the other page ....... but you have gave me some things to think about ....
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Uncle Steve
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Very Happy Well Mr./Ms. Guest.. We certainly did.. "Wild Moderated Debate"
The best one was when, as chairman I cast the tie breaking vote to allow the potash plant in Hersey.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am certain that the new apointees are honest, well intentioned and hope to serve the community. Why would I think otherwise? I don't personally know these individuals.

BUT

(edited for clarity)

What would... or could... happen when/if another controversial zoning issue pops up like the last one? And what if those on the board just happen to be in say, the real estate business or building business?

Conflict of interest is a rock and a hard spot. No win. Whether right, wrong or inbetween, it is all PERCEPTION of serving self interests. Then the rumor mill goes into turbo.

So, the choices are:
    Abstain (declaring a conflict of interest) from voting on a controversial issue, therefore sitting null and ineffective on the board for fear of fallout.

    Vote fairly and accept the fallout, possibly in terms of business lost through boycott.

    Vote to serve personal business interests and accept the fallout as overhead.


And this is how it really is in small town local politics. NO WIN.

Bill H. and Fran V. were not in business on the island... And perhaps a little more objective without this impediment. So when controversy surfaced, they worked to get things on track and in order? Sometimes when you win, you lose. Perhaps because they represented the majority interests of islanders rather than island business owners? At least this appears to be the perception. (I didn't think this up).

Personally. I wouldn't want to be (or allow myself to be) in the position of the new apointees. Out of the pan and into the fire.
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Last edited by Conis on Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get it now, profit is a dirty word. This Conis person must think that everyone that owns property on the island inherited their money to buy that property. NO NO Conis person, THEY worked for it, and profit paid for it. Now PLEASE tel me WHY business should not be represented on the committee. Thanking you in advance for your response.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now, Conis , you state that any member of the committee that is affiliated with a business that has the perception of gained profit directly or indirectly from an action taken by the zoning committee is suspect.

With such logic as that. Then EVERYONE in the township government would fit under the perception of gained profit via the indirect rout. As the Island grows ( like it or not ) land values increase, tax values go up, more services are provided,( I know you will love this one ), POSSIBLY a competitive ferry service, and, from what I have heard, your favorite place on the Island might have more patrons and therefore more profit, y passed on to Township government officials in the form of wages and tips made. This is called Ecn 001.

Does the fact that Mr Newhouse is a Trustee, and votes on the recommendations made by the Zoning committee, bother you ? I think he and his wife own a hotel on the Island, thusly they gain profit indirectly.
You get the picture.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Guest !! Conis isn't a bad guy, just a closet conservative with a Socialistic Liberal Philosophy... Go Conis Go Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sign on Guest! We would be glad you joined the fray! This anonymous stuff is for babies who won't stand behind their words.. Very Happy Conis has introduced himself before.. I'm sure he would again.. Seems you know him though.. While you are tossing names, toss your own.. Cool
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think perhaps the general population has a heightened awareness of, and healthy skepticism towards government and business, and their willingness to take advantage of the common man, thanks to the shameless acts of the Bush administration, with regard to Big oil, Big lumber, Halliburton and the pharmaceutical companies, just to name a few of our corrupt leadership's "beneficiaries". It is always a good thing to question authority and the motives which cause such authorities to act. If the actions being taken cannot be attributed to promoting "the common good", then usually, motives can be exposed, simply by "following the money".
It seems to me, that our "Guest" has chosen to pick a fight with Conis. Game on!! Conis is very capable of expressing himself and defending his point of view. Thank goodness for the controversy! I have to admit, I have found the site's content painfully boring, as of late! Laughing Go Conis!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those of you who didn't recognize my "style", the anti-Bush post was mine. I failed to log in, before submitting it. - Whooops! Piper Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thought.......I don't think most people would be-grudge a business/entrepeneur/capitalist a profit, so long as that profit was earned/obtained through the conducting of business on a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD. This is a concept that means nothing to lobbyist-heavy corporations today. They know that the field can be altered to their advantage, simply by lining the pockets of the appropriate politicos. What a shame it would be, to ever see that type of manipulation perpetrated, even on a small scale, on the people who love Bois Blanc Island.
Our president believes that business should be allowed to grow unfettered and to self-regulate. I think we all know what a deep heap of dung we would be in, if that ever came to be. Bush wants more tax-cuts for BIG OIL, to build refineries, while they rake in record profits! They want US to pay for their refineries, while they milk us bloody dry! Bush wants to "sew-up" any possible loop-hole that might allow an american citizen to purchase prescription drugs more cheaply. He is completely beholden to those who finance his reign of stupidity. These are the types of abuses that people are fed up with. Can you blame a person for viewing the business/political relationships in their own "neck of the woods" with a more corruption-wary eye? Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:39 am    Post subject: Getting back on track Reply with quote

Uncle Steve'

Getting back on track and answering your concern over the word "MAY", I believe that the state is giving permission for planning to continue to act as a zoning board after the effective date of the act.

"(1) A planning commission exercising the authority of a zoning board before the effective date of this act may continue to exercise that authority subject to this act. [Emphasis Added] "

As noted in the first paragraph, the planning commission was acting as a zoning board before & when the new act went into effect, and with permission of the state, has continued to act as a zoning board since July 1, 06. This is the primary reason for me believing that the planning commission is subject to the new act. It is because that is exactly what it says - subject to this act.
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Last edited by mikewhite on Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:23 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Mike... Lets hope so.. The AG will clarify WE HOPE.. My concern is that the action was initiated Prior to the Act taking effect..
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:46 am    Post subject: I see the light Reply with quote

Uncle Steve, I see what your saying, I think. You are referring to the actions of the removed two, while I am referring to the actions of the gang of three on the township. The townships actions occurred months after the law went into effect and that is what that portion of the new act is referirng to, how the township must act when it wants to remove someone. So, if the AG will ever act, we may find out if my interpretation of the act is right or wrong. It would be nice to hear from the AG.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:28 am    Post subject: The new Zoning Enabling Act Reply with quote

For those who wonder what in the heck is the Zoning Enabling Act and what changes it makes, go to:

http://www.nemcog.org/News%20-%20Zoning%20Law%20Changes.htm

It says the changes took effect on July 1, 2006 and townships must comply after that date.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:35 pm    Post subject: Complaint made by Dismissed Planning People Reply with quote

I heard just today that a complaint has been made by the former planning members against Bois Blanc Township. Now is the time for Loren to turn back on the road he is on and find the right path. The board needs to undo what they have done.

I will start a new thread that is a continuation of this one called "Lawsuit Over Removal of Planning Members".
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xxx
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Mike what happened to your post about the Attorney General's Opinion?? I saw it earlier and now it's gone!!! What the heck!! I was just wondering if you could post the entire opinion, if it isn't too much trouble. I thought it might be an interesting read is all. I've never known anyone to actually receive an answer from the Attorney General. I know it's been a long time since you wrote, but I figured you'd probably never hear back.
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