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BBI Property Conservation Easement
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:19 am    Post subject: BBI Property Conservation Easement Reply with quote

I Googled Bois Blanc Island and this is one of the things that popped up. It appears that there has been application made by the DNR, Forest, Mineral and Manaement Div. to the Michigan Natural Resoures Trust Fund for acquisition of property on BBI. The grant amount requested by the DNR from the MNRTF is $2,200,000. A significant amount wouldn't you say. I searched further and found that this is rated as a Tier 2 acquisition, a type 1 being the highest priority.

I wonder if there is some landowner, here, that will receive that amount of money for his land. Anyone know where this easement will be?
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:16 am    Post subject: Conservation Easement Reply with quote

I continued to search and found that conservation easements are good things for protecting land from development.

It appears that the Bois Blanc Island Property Conservation Easement did not make the final cut for 2006. There was a list of Michigan Natural Resources Grants that were approved, dated December 6, 2006. The one for BBI was not on the list.

Here are some "ifs" to ponder. If this group had known in advance about this, and if this group had approved of the conservation easement, maybe input to the DNR might have helped approve the grant.
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:54 pm    Post subject: Section 4 and section 3, lot 8 Reply with quote

I found out that the goal was the section 4 area. Swedes Bay, Lost Lake, west end of Lake Mary, etc. In fact it is all of section 4, and lot 8 in section 3. All the land is owned by Martin Jahn or Reinhart Jahn or both together. I'll paste in the info I got from the DNR.

Mr. White, The application that you refer
to (06-136) was for the DNR acquisition of a conservation easement on
approximately 743 acres that adjoins state forest land to the east and
west and has 5,000 feet of Lake Huron shoreline on the north. The
property is located in Township 29 North, Range 1 West, Sections 3 and
4. The intent was for the Little Traverse Conservancy to partner with
the DNR on this project. They would hold title to the land and the DNR
would hold all other rights (public access, hunting, etc.). The
property also contains frontage on Lake Mary and Lake Evans. While we
were not successful in being awarded a MNRTF grant to purchase this
property, we are currently working with the landowner on other options.
Please feel free to contact me if you have any additional questions.

Thank you,

Kerry Wieber
Forest Land Administrator
Forest, Mineral & Fire Management
MDNR
Phone: 517-373-9905
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:41 am    Post subject: Anyone out there with thoughts on this? Reply with quote

I feel like I'm the only one with any interest at all in this subject. So far I answered my own question, which was who owns the land. My opinion is that this would be a good thing. Anyone out there want to express their opinion on a matter of great importance to BBI?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, you are talking to yourself again.. Laughing

Seriously, if the Land Conservancy can work something out with the Jahn family, that would be super.. I think just the conservancy without the DNR would be a better option. Guess they have to find the money somewhere.. I wonder if this includes the lighthouse too.. It's encouraging that the Jahn family wants to go this route.. Cool
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:40 pm    Post subject: Lighthouse Reply with quote

The lighthouse is in section 5. It is all owned by the state except for a narrow rectangle with the lighthouse at the east end of it, and the shore and old boat house on the west end of it.

I have hunted all over section 4 and always thought it was state land until a few years ago.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if the Nature Conservancy got in on the land sales? Conis has been kind of following that.. The funding could probably be run thru again in a new fiscal year, ya think?
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Conis
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to be careful what I say: I get "crumbs from friends" here and there and no way to seperate fact/fiction or "prospects from actual"

I have been hearing rumors of land aquisition for 2-3 years. "Aquisition" isnt the correct term. More like major land holdings being moved into conservation trust on BBI. It doesn't surprise me an iota that Jahn's property is being "looked it". That property is near "virgin". Huge trees that escaped logging.

We don't want the state or DNR in this. They have their own motives. LTC (Little Trav. Cons.) Is the major active "player" in our area. They can do things. They have backers and $$$ resources. TNC (The nature conservency) I don't know that much about.

Having watched LTC in action for 20 years, I can tell you that it is WIN WIN as far as environmental concerns and appreciating all surrounding property values, especially in/on a place as precious as BBI.

If your not familar with LTC, I suggest paying their website a visit (see my sig./bottom). If you want to preserve, BBI against development subdivision and improvement, you must understand what a conservation trust IS, how it works, and how it will preserve Northern Michigan for future generations.

This is important to me.
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pilotkid
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I think this sounds great. What will the state do with the land? Anything? Or is it just set aside so that someone else can't do anything with it? Sounds like a good thing to make sure the island doesn't get entirely "bought up"
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Conis
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pilotkid wrote:
Yeah I think this sounds great. What will the state do with the land? Anything? Or is it just set aside so that someone else can't do anything with it? Sounds like a good thing to make sure the island doesn't get entirely "bought up"


Several questions there.

A conservation trust usually puts the land into a lower tax catagory. It can be held by the original landowner, passed on to a non-profit organization as "owners"... It all depends on how is is written, what the restrictions are or "aren't". Generally a conservation trust restricts subdivision, construction developments etc. LTCs trusts are generally "as it is-forever". To me, a good thing. Even motor vehicle traffic is prohibited beyond any parking area etc.

I don't trust the state or DNR an iota. They can whip up a "conservation trust". to lower tax (to the twp) with a "timber management exclusion". Meaning clear cut the sucker then oh well.

The area Mike indicated was being "looked at" (I believe Jahn's holdings) is a remarkable piece of property.

Last summer, I and Ott found a nearly invisible trail heading south from the NS drive... So in we went on an expedition. (4 wheeled) About a mile in, the white and red pines just got bigger and bigger and bigger. Some had to be 5' in dia. Likely virgin pines never cut due the long distance from the dock. I doub't many have even been to this stand. We parked, then walked around in awe. Expecting a dinosaur to jump out from behind one of the mammoth trees. Thus we named this seldom visited place "Jurrasic Park". I doub't many long time islanders know such a place still exists on the island? I bet Mike knows the place I speak of?

Anyway. The value of this undisturbed land is enormous. So is the value of the timber. I can't honestly say if the state or DNR is interested in preserving or mining the timber? Don't think for a minute they are unaware it exists. I am totally certain these old grotwh pockets are visable from the air.

All else I know is that the same forester doing timber surveys around and east of Indian River is the same one doing much of the survey work on the island. I was told, that most old growth PINE trees on state land are now being spared. At some of the 100+ year old red pines. Who knows.

What ever happens with this particular property is anyones guess until something becomes official.
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Kevin Gibbons
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conis you would be wrong about long time islanders knowing where the reserve is and there is also a crandberry march over there. All of the old islanders no where this is. Since they used to live on that side of the island. There is also some apple orchards over there that is dying because lack of care and thinning out around them. Maybe new islanders don't no where you are talking about but your old islanders do. Also you start talking greenbelts and you won't be the most popular person on the island.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The place I spoke of is back there by deer lake/lost lake. All I can tell you is we were WAY back in there, came to a two track that eventually came out on firetower road (3-4 miles heading west), just after firetower heads back north toward the shore.
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:54 am    Post subject: AGREE Reply with quote

I agree what keivn has to say ... its my land and if I want to enjoy seeing the water while I am sitting in my home drinking a cup of tea ..thats my buisness ..

In fact we owned lake front down by where Nagys are ... down the shore a way ... The house did not get built and I left the island .. but I had a house plan and for sure I was going to see the lake .... If you have water front ... why not enjoy it ???

I see where Mike is coming from as far as his plan on how he kept trees around as it helps both in winter and summer as far as wind and the cold ... I like his place ..

I am going to add .. didn't you all come to the island to have some freedom from the rules that you had to live by where ever you lived ??
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
am going to add .. didn't you all come to the island to have some freedom from the rules that you had to live by where ever you lived ??


Now that is the problem! That mindset allows people to break the rules.. The same rules that apply to you everywhere else applies to you on BBI Too! This mindset carries over to more than just zoning issues.. And it's sad! BBI is a part of the State. It isn't a free place with no laws.. Never has been.... Never will be..
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Susie that isn't the issue of laws, It is a greenbelt which wouldn't allow you to cut or build on your properity 200' from the water you couldn't touch your properity just pay taxes on it. That is the issue. Most lake front properity that has homes on them are less then 200' right now. I agree with Conis we should have started this 30 yrs ago and none of the rest of you could have built your home where you did. That is what I don't like someone saying well I got mine here so lets stop everyone else.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some how this got off track under the conservation easement thread.???

This belongs under the shoreline preservation thread. I cannot easily move your posts. I am going to respond, THERE
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was commenting on the comment, Kevin.. I'm for selective cutting with advice fun one in the know.. I'll be following Conis to the other topic.. Smile
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:02 pm    Post subject: rules Reply with quote

Susie Q

You know what I meant by what I said ..

I do not have to go into details with you ...
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:04 pm    Post subject: Land Acqusition? Reply with quote

Easements are good things.

Kevin, you said if a person is for greenbelts they won't be popular on the island. Who gives a rats *hind end* about popularity? Preserving the land for all generations is important. Being unpopular is a sign that something good is happening...doing what has always been done will get you cluttered crap we see in so many, once wild, places.

Please categorize me as unpopular because I'm for greenbelts.

TheeIslandgirl: How much do you have to clear, before you would be happy? Have you ever had a shoreline cabin that did NOT have the frontage cleared? Have you ever experienced the land at the edge of the lake for more than a day or week or season?

You are exactly like I used to be. What I have discovered is that the natural shoreline is more beautiful in a continuous ribbon not only for me but for ALL AMERICANS.

I'm off this and into Shoreline Preservation
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:10 pm    Post subject: Lake Reply with quote

Hi John ...

The answer to your questions :

I would want to clear my land so I could see the lake with a few trees here and there .. I would not have any trees to block the view ...

I have friends ( on the island)that have a log home on the lake ( East)they have trees in front of their home and a trail to the lake ... it was all so nice ..but for me I want to look out to see the water .... from in side my home ..

The third Question as I understand it: Yes ..I have stayed many months/years on the shore with no trees to block the view ..it was wonderful ... This was living year around .. not just in the summer months ...
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Kevin Gibbons
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To answer your question John I do want to be liked on the Island and I think I am and I plan on keeping it like that. I don't like to tell other people what they can do with there properity. And I'm sure that you don't want other people telling you what to do with yours. Like you need to tear down your deck that you made out of cedar trees because we don't allow anybody to cut cedar trees. You better have a raised drain field if you are less then 300' from high water mark. Oh by the way your drive way has to make so many turns in it and it needs to be 36' wide with 10' on either side cleared from trees. Was your logs graded by a liciensc grader which is a building code on the island. There is many more things that get put into joning and some already are or were.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Island is a wonderful place to come to get a break from our everyday life, but the laws should hold there just as they would anywhere else in this sate. Not just laws concerning building, cutting down trees, etc. but the laws pertaining to everything. I agree to the cutting of some trees on lake front property. Like so many have said, it is nice to see the water from inside your structure. Warmth from the sun in the winter and lots of sun in the summer. Don't cut all trees but some. And those that have already build their homes should not get to pushy to others on what and how they should do theirs.
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Bruce Lord
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I would have to say..............................................................................................................put be on that list too. Suprise suprise
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Point
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A friend of mine who bought property on the island last year told me he received a letter from someone who owns property on the island. This letter basically blasted him for putting in a driveway and cutting down trees. He was asked to not cut down other trees while building. Wow, good thing I don't need to build anything in the near future. I'm sure someone wouldn't be very happy with my response to that request.
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Kevin. I knew you wouldn't let me get away with that post without you replying.

Everything you pointed out that could be "zoning violations" or "building code infractions" are all examples of you being told what to do with your property. In fact, there isn't anything you can do to "Your" property construction wise, without being told what you can do...permits, land evaluations, etc. You ARE told what to do with your property already. What I am advocating, in its simplest form, is BBI establishing ordinances that protect the land. Whatever land is unmolested at this time, will fall under whatever measures are established. Everything else is grandfathered. End of story. IF someone wants to buy shoreline property they KNOW WITHOUT ANY QUESTION that the township of BBI has established ordinances specific to BBI that dictate any land change. Now those potential buyers have a decision to make. Buy it with the rules or leave. Simple. And when the next buyer comes and realizes the vision of BBIs township, and this buyer KNOWS that the land is protected from "suburbanization" , HE WILL BUY JUST FOR THAT REASON. There are large numbers of people that are looking for "remote" escapes, places that have only ONE BAR, ONE STORE/RESAURANT. That new land owner will add to the minimal impact philosophy. As each new piece of shoreline land comes up for grabs, we can rest easy knowing that the ancient beauty of this island landscape will remain intact. How rare would that be in this day and age?

In order for this to happen, however, we have to let go of traditional land change concepts that destroy the very beauty we crave so much. Theeislandgirl, you have a strong vision of your shoreline camp. I did too. And I do not argue that seeing the water from a house or from anypoint of view, is always beautiful. But before we put all our eggs in that established vision in your head basket, reevaluate your thinking and take a very hard look at the land...it is a lot older than you and it has seniority! Respect your elders! But seriously, we need to treat that land on the edge as if it was an elder...it is a living, thriving community...an ancient garden, virtually in an unaltered state since the beginning of time...that deserves some serious, serious, thought about simply preserving it and enjoying it as we do any garden and then finally bragging about it, that's right, I brag all the time to my friends..."My garden is older than your garden." And all I have to do to take care of it is look at it and enjoy it. Ma Nature does the rest.

Think about it.
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