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Shoreline Preservation
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doug miller
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys are a riot. Think I'll start referring to you as Conis O'Brien and K-J Leno.

Thanks for the advice. I love the grass at the front of my property both because it looks great and because it seems to stop growing when it is 3 or 4 inches high. No need to cut.

I also love and am trying to preserve the large (basketball sized) moss that grows there. JEE will appreciate that I am hoping to grow or build a screen that will keep the sun off of the moss. One of the problems on the west end where we are is that the howling winds coming through the straits seem to knock down a few trees every winter--and that has a snowball effect on others. Leaves the moss unprotected from the sun.

Conis, I just don't like the bare rock look or the bare rock with nasty weeds look. I think the weed cover with some topsoil and maybe a groundcover or some kind of interesting grass sounds good. In fact, I live only a mile from MSU's turf grass program and they seem to have expertise on grasses of all kinds. I think I will talk with them.

I know Cindy Riker visits this site a lot. Cindy, do you know what you all charge per yard for topsoil or mulch? Or do you have any thoughts on a good plan for covering up the stones and allowing something to grow there? Thanks.
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Kevin Gibbons
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way Conis can you use round up on trees by the water. To kill them and keep them from growing back. And how much would it take per tree say a 100' by 200'.
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:53 am    Post subject: Get back to Shoreline Protection Reply with quote

Getting back to shoreline protection, it looks to me as though the pdf article calls for only a 20 foot buffer of trees under certain situations. I'll paste in the relevant parts. [] are my comments.:

1. All structures proposed to be built within the Great Lakes Shoreline Protection Overlay Zone shall be
set back according to the requirements below, except for the following uses: pump houses,
recreational docks, storm water and erosion control devices, picnic tables, benches, recreational
watercraft, and stairways and walkways. [These are allowed]

2. Within the Shoreline Protection Overlay boundary, the following setback requirements apply:
a) No structure shall be allowed within 75 feet of ordinary high water mark; [State law]
b) On lots with a line of mature forested vegetation within 100 feet of the ordinary high water mark,
the lakeshore side of the principal structure shall be set back at least 20 feet landward from the
edge of predominantly forested vegetation;

c) On lots lacking a line forested vegetation within 100 feet of the ordinary high water mark (rocky
or sandy beaches), all structures except those specifically exempted above shall be set back 100
feet from the 1986 High Water Mark. [Could be in front of the woods]
d) On lots with a foredune, no structure shall be constructed within 25 feet of the crest of the first
lakeward sand dune;
e) On lots with a steep bluff which begins within 100 feet of the 1986 High Water Mark all
structures shall be set back at least 50 feet from the top of the bluff;
f) On lots with coastal wetlands, a setback of 75 feet shall be maintained from the wetland's edge. [one to argue over]
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Conis
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the DEQs official defination of a wetland? Always stumped me!

Is a cedar "swamp" a wetland?
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Kevin Gibbons
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a wetlands is any land with standing water, and it is inspected in the Spring during a rain storm. And any places that hatches misquotes they need to keep the west niles going. Actually it doesn't have to have standing water. Cedar tree are an indication of wetlands even if there in rock. About drainage why would you want to drain a perfectly good wet land. The beaver creates more wetlands that shouldn't be wetlands.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought it had something to do with standing water. That means Rocky road is a wetland.

Personally, I sort of like W Nile Virus. I tell everybody I have it as an excuse for my behavior. Then they stand 4-5 feet back after that. It kind of like malaria. They used to drink gin and tonics in africa to keep from getting malaria and I hear it also works with nile virus. I am good to go.
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Kevin Gibbons
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rocky Road is a wetland by its self. Did you no Conis that when they first put rockey road in it was going to be used for a creek to drain that area. They didn't have a big enough bull dozer to flatten it because it had a lot of ridges crossing it so it never got done. Then people started driving down it with trucks and other things, had to be carfull for a while it was pretty rough and the trees were close to the vechiles. Then people started building and putting trailers back there and they made the road a little better. If they keep going it will so be paved. I can remember when you had a hard time driving down it with a tractor.
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:42 pm    Post subject: Legal wetland DNR Definition Reply with quote

Leave it to the state to make a wetland clear as mud. No pun intended.

MCL324.30301
(p) “Wetland” means land characterized by the presence of water at a frequency and duration sufficient to support, and that under normal circumstances does support, wetland vegetation or aquatic life, and is commonly referred to as a bog, swamp, or marsh and which is any of the following:

(i) Contiguous to the Great Lakes or Lake St. Clair, an inland lake or pond, or a river or stream.

(ii) Not contiguous to the Great Lakes, an inland lake or pond, or a river or stream; and more than 5 acres in size; except this subparagraph shall not be of effect, except for the purpose of inventorying, in counties of less than 100,000 population until the department certifies to the commission it has substantially completed its inventory of wetlands in that county.

(iii) Not contiguous to the Great Lakes, an inland lake or pond, or a river or stream; and 5 acres or less in size if the department determines that protection of the area is essential to the preservation of the natural resources of the state from pollution, impairment, or destruction and the department has so notified the owner; except this subparagraph may be utilized regardless of wetland size in a county in which subparagraph (ii) is of no effect; except for the purpose of inventorying, at the time.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike: I am glad you clarified all this, next time I see a mud puddle... I will scream... "WETLANDS!" Now that the defination has been settled...

Rocky Road is still a drain... when the swamps overflow. Which is more often than not. It is more like a dam that prevents drainage so the water runs over the road with no where else to go.

I have a few ideas of my own on midnight fixes. I got a west nile paradise right next to camp that aint going away until it's "fixed". And water runs downhill. I could help it do that. Dont rat me to DEQ!
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:21 pm    Post subject: land Reply with quote

The post I made on page 2 about coming to the island for beauty and freedom ..

I believe that is why the people came to the island ... Just think about it ....

Maybe I did not say it quite right .. yes .. we live under laws on the island ... but think about the freedom we have on the island ...There are much less laws then other places ... yes .. alot has been taken away though the years ... I will get back to that later ...

We are free from the sound of lawn mowers .. we are free from the people living right next door on either side .... the garabage truck ..

Its free to sit on on the beach .... what I pointed out here was not all the good freedoms we have on the island ...Theres much more ...
Everyone knows what I am talking about ... Its FREE !!! DOME !!

Just think how we feel when we get to the island and get off the boat and put our feet on island ground .... don't we all have such a good feeling to get away from it all ???!!!

I can not believe the amount of people that come to the island now ..its like they get off the boat and disapear in the woods ... never to be seen again untill they get on the boat to get home to all the nosie ..and all that goes with the city life ...

I do not see all the homes that has been built .. signs that people put up next to the drive way is about it ...

I still believe that I would want to cut the trees that I need to enjoy the lake ...

Whats so bad to see the homes from the lake ???
There are quite a few of them that was built more then 30 years ago ...

Living on the Island year around and trying to make a living there is not so peaceful .... its better to come and stay awhile then leave ... you get the better part of the peace on the island ..
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:44 am    Post subject: clearing allowed Reply with quote

In the example that John led us to, it is more liberal then I imagined it would have been. If I'm reading it right, it allows an opening 30 feet wide for every 100 owned. Or a ratio of 3 to 10. I'll paste it in.

Cutting of trees on the parcel is limited to 30 percent, but clearings must be limited to 30 feet per
100 feet of the shoreline width.

This would eliminate the clear cutting of the entire parcel that has been happening so much in recent years.
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bearing
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone who does not value Bois Blanc for its natural beauty needs to pull their head out of their wallet and *hind end*.

If you don't protect your unique island it will be gone. with the majority of our nation's population living in URBAN areas, people seek "wild" natural beauty. Once found, they want it, they want to own it, manipulate it and turn it into their prized possession that reflects their urban/suburban lifestyle.

Turn your back on preservation, conservation and environmental awareness and good bye bbi. Your local government is not serving it's people. that is obvious. Saving what is left of the natural uniqueness of Bois Blanc will only make it more unique and more valuable. NO ONE IS MAKING NEW WILD ISLANDS! THIS IS IT, IT IS ALL WE WILL EVER HAVE.

If the rest of the State slowly, quickly, eventually urbanizes and BBI remains rural, wild and natural (SHORELINE INCLUDED) the value (monetarily, and emotionally) will SKY ROCKET!

ECOTOURISM IS A HUGE money maker, if that is what ya'll seek.

All this arguing is a waste of time. Open your eyes and see BBI for what it is and what it is not. In case anyone forgot, we all love BBI. That is our common interest.

The point many seem to miss is this: We come to BBI for its natural unique beauty and sense of away from it all, yet at the same time we are undermining this rare quality.

Has it ever occurred to anyone that if we develop develop develop THE QUALITY OF LIFE WILL DRAMATICALLY DECREASE!

What is that organization that just started on BBI? Busy? or something like that? They seem to have it right, in seeking a middle ground where all parties involved get what they need. There is a way to ensure a quality future for BBI if everyone is committed to working for it, this is called SUSTAINABLE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT. google it. Many communities have successfully done this and continue to work at it.

WAKE UP BBI ! And see beyond your noses. There is a big beautiful island that needs your help.


I may only get the pleasure of spending a couple weekends up there but I would sure be sickened to see it ruining just because the community failed to plan for the future.
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Al'sOtherSister
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Were we argueing?

Hmmm...funny I missed that....
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I missed that too ..... Lisa ..
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Kevin Gibbons
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I was arguing I don't remember. You no not everyone has the same opion. But I don't think that is arguing at least not unfriendly arguing. If everyone agreed on everything then it would be pretty boring. besides this has been the best post since we left the politics.
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:16 pm    Post subject: Bearing Reply with quote

Bearing, You Hit the nail on the head.... several nails on the head.
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:45 pm    Post subject: BBI Township Meeting 1-18-07 Reply with quote

As all of you know, I have started a discussion about a preservation concept for Bois Blanc Island. You, along with all Township Officials, have received these correspondences. Recently, one of my emails was brought up at the 1-18-07 township meeting. I am happy about that. I will attach the sound bite but I will also write out the response given by Joan Schroka. I find her assumptions voiced in public as insults to all BBI residents and seasonal land owners. Our investment in BBI merits the serious consideration of our concerns when brought to the attention of our township leaders.


Some one, Township official, Loren Gibbons, I think, brings up my email. Loren Gibbons ask officials if the others have read my email. Here is what is said as close as I can understand from the sound bite:

Loren Gibbons: Did you get this from John Engel?

Schroka: Nope.

Someone: It was in an email.

Schroka: "..uh, that's why. I haven't gone into my emails for two weeks"

Loren Gibbons: "It's a serial. This is the first installment. Unfortunately."

Someone: "It's about Shoreline Protection"

Schroka: "...oh, because he's got a neighbor who is cutting down trees to build a house..."

Someone: (Can't quite understand.) "..property line..."

Schroka: "...yeah, that's why...yeah, yeah, well yeah, you know your building a house, you gotta cut down a few trees to build a house...."

Laughter...

As all of you know, this has nothing to do with anyone building a house next to me. This has to do with thinking ahead and making plans to preserve the natural wonders on BBI. She had not even read my correspondence but felt compelled to comment publicly anyway which demonstrated a total lack of professionalism. She did not have a clue about what I am talking about. She does not have a clue about what a "Shoreline overlay" is. Obviously, by her comments, she does not care what I think. More importantly, she does not care about minimal impact construction or shoreline preservation or the concerns of those SHE REPRESENTS!

I think Joan is a fine person. But like a BBI resident told me, "It's all about awareness and education." Joan is not aware first about what I am talking about. Second, she is not educated about preservation or the lack thereof on BBI. She is also not aware of the destruction taking place on BBI. She is not aware of the concern of other BBI citizens.

Loren Gibbons made these promises, not only to registered voters but also to property owners, in his run for Township Office:

We believe that our duty, as elected officials and public servants, is to
Item 1. Serve the residents and property owners of BBI
Item 3. Preserve and maintain the beauty and unique features of BBI


I could not attach the rest of the document and I did not want to type it all in. It is a public document and someone can post it if desired.
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:57 pm    Post subject: Engel as witness of tree deaths Reply with quote

Hey, guys, they weren't on the shoreline. N'ya, nan, nan, N'ya, N'ya.

I wasn't drunk only because Conis and I drank all of his vodka the night before.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:42 am    Post subject: Re: Engel as witness of tree deaths Reply with quote

John Elmer Engel wrote:
Hey, guys, they weren't on the shoreline. N'ya, nan, nan, N'ya, N'ya.

I wasn't drunk only because Conis and I drank all of his vodka the night before.


?????????You lost me on that one?
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:56 am    Post subject: Earlier Posts Reply with quote

In earlier posts, You and Kevin were needling me about crying when you "trimmed" your trees in back. I was just responding...a day late...or so....
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Elmer, I support your efforts 100%. As with any controversial issue, there are those who lean to the extremes on both sides of the argument. I am definitely with you, on the need to protect the island's natural beauty, for us and for future generations. It's not that hard to do! One obstacle that you have to overcome, when building, is finding a builder that agrees with you on "low-impact" construction. We were fortunate to find such a builder in Reinhardt Jahn. Some builders, are not willing to "inconvenience" themselves, by working with nuisance items (trees) in close proximity to the structure. We were given excellent advice, early on, by my wife's relatives, about leaving the trees out front, until after the structure is built. That way, you can sit in your living room/kitchen/whatever and select a few trees to remove, for a view of the water. (Hopefully dead ones) You can scarcely see our cottage from the water, if you're looking for it. The protection from the wind, snow and ice, provided by the trees is outstanding. They cut down on the noise of neighbors, boats, PWC, and the wind. We are very happy with our decision to leave our trees "out-front". I remove only the dead ones and the "eye-poker" branches. The result is a groomed, park-like setting between the cottage and the water. I hope that others will read this and give this method a try, when they are ready to build. Very Happy
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bearing
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok so maybe it wasn't arguing, and we are all entitled to our own opinions, but keeping the common interest in the forefront while expressing various opinions is one way to make progress.


That excerpt from the township meeting is appalling. Why does the community of Bois Blanc allow themselves to be unrepresented and mismanaged? From all of the post on this site, your township board is failing to work for ALL of the people of the community. Or perhaps they do not consider seasonal residents as community members???? And what is the deal with township board members not checking their emails in over two weeks? Hello! you are a gov. official! email is the latest and greatest mode of communication and information transfer!

I just can't help but wonder what the hell is this board doing if it is not paying attention to its community? But then again, I am not sure I have a leg to stand on, my wife and kids and I only get up there a few days out of the year. I would hate to see such a unique place ruining by bad politics.

Unfortunately, efforts to plan and protect will be stunted by an unaware local government. The twp board are shooting themselves in the foot.

I have seen this time and again in all of the communities I have lived in. Until you have representation in office it will be a slow up hill battle.

I am in disbelief that a local body of government is adamant about denying the voice of the community. I mean come on! when was the last time someone with passion and purpose was speaking out at their meetings!? Or maybe it has been so long they forgot how to listen and uphold their oaths of office?

It seems your planning commission was on the right track but was purposefully derailed.

Interesting how local gov. and politics mimic government at the larger scale....
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Kevin Gibbons
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the township has done such a bad job of running the island, then why do you people even want to go there. It is funny to me how the people have ran the township for years but now all at once they don't know what there doing. Maybe it is they don't agree with you and you have a problem with that. You say that they are suppose to stand up for the public. Maybe they are. You want something to be brought up at a meeting then get it on the ajenda and be there to state your case. I don't agree with everything the twp does. But there is no need for cutting them down. That is not the way to get there attention or a least the attention that you want.
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Squeaky
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmmm......... Where does it say that anyone is arguing? I missed that too and can not seem to find where anyone has said that...
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:42 pm    Post subject: How do we get attention? Reply with quote

Kevin, It looks to me like what John was doing was trying to make the township aware of the concerns of quite a few people, and not just his concerns alone. Loren brought up the subject of shoreline preservation and that subject was laughed at and not addressed. I can see why some people might get upset.

You are right about being there to state your case. I have noted that some audience members get listened to. John is not on the island. He can't attend. Any suggestions, Kevin.
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