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Shoreline Preservation
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:51 am    Post subject: Awareness Reply with quote

We have, by discussion, become aware that:

1. Clear cutting of shoreline trees is happening.
2. Some think doing that is bad.
3. A lot of people believe a landowner has a right to do it, bad or good.
4. #2 people want to convince the #3 people that it is bad.

I have this old book full of quotations and one of my favorite ones says it all;

People convinced against their will are of the same opinion still.

It takes a lot of effort and time to change an opinion once it has been formed. Even evidence will not change some peoples minds. We have our own "Inconvenient Truth" going on on Bois Blanc.

The starting point is education. At least some awareness would be generated. Step two would be the slow realization that maybe clear cutting of all shoreline trees on a persons property is bad, and the landowner chooses not to cut them all down.

The problem is that by the time the "Inconvenient Truth" finally settles into peoples minds, it will be too late. That is why the #2 people feel that the process needs to be speeded up. That can only happen using legislation.
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:18 pm    Post subject: Island Reply with quote

I think it comes down to personal choices about what we believe makes the island beautiful and what should be done to preserve that beauty. Some like a mostly wild island and some like a partially wild/partially cultivated island. I for one love to go to the Pines to walk down what I think is the only sidewalk on the island and look at the quaint houses, the lawns that are the mowing kind, the boathouses, the old cedars, the water and the gazebo. It is the mix of cultivated and wild that I find beautiful. I even like the fact my young son can ride, if slowly, his small bike on that sidewalk. It doesn't mean I would like to see sidewalks or paved roads all over the island, but I think that little stretch of the island improves the beauty of the island and makes it a better place. And as I have said before, I also like to see a small cottage set in a well-tended setting, and to see the small gardens that some have planted.


The above Doug wrote ... I like his point of view on the pines .. I have enjoyed that part of the Island very much ... Its called the "Gold Coast"
All the old nice homes there ... and the home on the beach that I used to go as a child to see my summer friend ... my father build that rock wall around their place so water would not come up near their home ..
on down where you walk though the trees I used to take that walk as a child then with my kids .... We always go down there when we visit the island ...
The start of the walk starting from the old dock and as you went past the homes .. you would come to a tree covered area we called "lovers lane "...
a new home was build there a few years ago ....not sure as I did not go to see it when I was there ..I by passed it ..coming from the road behind all those homes ..as my parents own a home and now a small trailor that was put there years ago right next to my folks home .. we did not mind ... Dennis was a good guy and kept his place up ... my folks bought it when they were there last summer .... I was there with them ...
We loved the ole pump house that is still there thanks to a few that kept it up ..
I lived in the pines growing up .. so I have many wonderful memories of the pines..
I would swim all day long at the old dock ...everyday ...
So my interest is trying to save it .. but do not know how .. and was hoping someone that lives there could help out with that finding a way ..to do it ..
That is a very important part of the island ...
I hope it can be saved ....
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Conis
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today, I received my 2007 spring newsletter from LTC (Little Traverse Conservancy) . I stopped what I was doing and read it cover to cover.

Great articles about the Lee Grande Ranch aquisition, (completed)

Also articles re shoreline preservation on Drummond (page 5) and Sugar Islands as well as work being done in Les Cheneaux area.

Worth a read. (Entire newsletter in pdf format.)

http://www.landtrust.org/Newsletters/Spring2007.pdf
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Kevin Gibbons
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a good article I know peterson has been working a long time on this project. I haven't talked to him on it for about 6-8 yrs but he started this about 10 yrs ago. He has done a great job. This is a good idea for JE it is just what he has been talking about. All you have to do is donate your properity to the LTC and you are in. Not disagreeing I think it is good. If you have properity to donate you don't need the township to do anything. That would be a win-win situation. Go for it JE
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Conis
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I certainly is a win-win way of doing things. I wish more would take the time to understand how LTC operates and what is being accomplished. Their success has been phenominal and they are growing in membership and aquisitions, exponentially. The positive impact they will make for future generations is immeasurable. It works well for the landowners, too as far as taxes.

I am truly pleased to see Lee Grande ranch in trust. A gorgeous unspoiled piece of property now available for everyone to enjoy, indefinately.

LTC is truly the only show in town when it comes down to the preservation of Northern Michigan, for future generations to enjoy just as we have taken for granted in our lifetimes.

Toward the end of the newsletter is another interesting article about the states budget problems. What is being spent on prison inmates compared to education. $100 mil for the legislature. Some very interesting figures.
In that article, it was stated that for every dollar spent on conservation, $160 is returned. Worth a read.
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:44 pm    Post subject: CONIS Reply with quote

I moved to this post as Coni suggested ..

I want to say that I Support Kevin 100% of the time .. when he talks about how much he enjoys sitting in his home watching the gulls out in the water ...

My last trip there our family went to visit our friends toward the East end of the island .. They have a beautiful log home they built . with a neat path to the shore .. you cannot see the water from their home .. the path winds down to the lake ..its all so beautiful ... but it is not what I would want .. I want to see the water !!

Kevin was raised in a very neat home on the island .. It was truely the pick of the lot ..
He could look out and see everything .. !!! When you were in side his home you felt like you were right there on the beach !!
We lived for a short while in the small house next to Kevins folks home ..
I could see the boats go by at night and I loved the sound they made as they went past the area I was ... I think I seen a U.F.O. one time ..
Anyway ... it was a treat to stay in that little house ...

I do not understand what John is getting at here except that he wants to save the island .. so if you cut your trees to see the Lake then it spoils the island .. I just do not get it ... Well I really do get what he is saying but what for ??? How is cutting your trees to see the lake going to spoil all the fun on the island ???
Tell me what homes on the island that has cut the trees so they can see the water that look so bad ????
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Ron Petersen
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know it will vary on where you are and what kind of trees you have - BUT - Many times best way to have a good healthy tree is to cut down 1/2 dozen around it that is in competition for sunlight, nutrients etc,
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Al'sOtherSister
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Connie Faye...
What I think some of us are trying to say, is...

The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few.

The needs of all people to have the same Island that you speak of,
out weigh your need to see the water.
Or that the need of, say 15 % of the people that want to see the water and are building, should consider the other 85% that are trying to make a less dramatic statement by cutting less, therefore having more to enjoy in the future.



John(JEE)...is there any scientific studies that talk of clear cutting a shoreline and what it does to the soil, environment, etc? This would be interesting information.
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:42 am    Post subject: Shoreline Reply with quote

Nature packs the trees in tight for a reason, Ron. The intertwining roots create a woven structure on top and just below the gravel ground we have on BBI. This incredible weaving strengthens each tree's grip on the earth and improves its chances in severe winds. The tight pattern forces winds up and over the canopy. I could go on. Re-read this entire thread and maybe you'll get it...or not.

You are subscribing suburban lawn and garden concepts on a wild and natural arrangement of plants that have evolved over thousands of years. To see suburban yards, all I have to do is drive down any city street anywhere on earth.

Cut it all down, put up vinyl boxes one after the other, stare at the water, and enjoy the "wild shores of BBI."

Re-read my last post in the 'Easement" thread.

If reading LTC newsletter doesn't clue you in as to where the modern world is going with Northern Michigan preservation, then you will never get it. Don't write anymore directed at me. I won't see it. I've said it all, over and over. See you all on the island soon. I'm done here.
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Kevin Gibbons
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JE if you want to get so hard on everybody else following the LTC then put your money where your mouth is and donate your properity to them.
Ron is right we need to cut some trees to let other trees grow. When you get a canopy so the sun can't get in it chokes off and stops everything from growing. That is why when you get in an area where there is just a whole bunch of big trees there isn't any small trees. Or the smaller trees grow a little then get chocked off and die.
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:02 am    Post subject: Ridicule Reply with quote

Quote:
Ridicule is generally made use of to laugh men out of virtue and good sense, by attacking everything praiseworthy in human life.
-Addison

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Ron Petersen
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My, My, John - we are a bit touchy this morning aren't we - I did not direct anything at you - just stating a fact that I know will work if it fits the situation - Maybe you should reread my post!!!! I stated how it can vary!!!!
Jeeeeez! Why is it everyone wants to tell everyone else what to do??
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Al'sOtherSister
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John...I did pose a question, hoping for some scientific fact to throw Connie Faye's way. Sorry.........
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here, here now.. John has been providing links thruout these topics for people to refer to for explanations and information.. Stirring the pot any further is really senseless.. Everyone is starting to repeat themselves.. Please review, take what you want and leave the rest..
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bknoll
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Please review, take what you want and leave the rest..


Well said.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need to clarify something here without going too far OFF topic or running this topic further around in circles.

Lets get some facts in order.

A conservation easement is JUST THAT. It isn't necessary to "Donate" your land to LTC or any other organization unless you choose to do this.
Private property can be put into a conservation easement or conservation trust. It is somewhat like a contract affixed to a deed. Once this is done, it sticks and cannot be reversed.

A conservation easement can contain any restrictions chosen to be included.

Such as:
    No tree cutting,
    Limited timber management.
    No motorized Vehicles,
    No hunting (sanctuary)
    No construction.
    Construction only in specified areas.
    Public access/no public access.
    Whatever


A conservation easement entitles a private landowner to significant tax breaks as well (There is the incentive).

Options:
http://www.landtrust.org/ProtectingLand/LandprotectTABLE.htm

Private Landowner easements described.
http://www.landtrust.org/ProtectingLand/ConsEasementTABLE.htm

Sample of a private landowner conservation easement:
http://www.landtrust.org/ProtectingLand/MichModelEasementTextVersion.htm

If you are sitting on real estate with an eye on development potential, a conservation easement is a very bad idea. Restriction may reduce market value of the land by restricting development potential.

If you own real estate with limited development potential, say 20 acres on Bois Blanc, back in the woods, you might want to think about a conservation easement (unless Best Western has already contacted you) In which you could stipulate "one cottage not to exceed x size, no tree cutting except xxx or limited timber management including xxx... whatever" In doing so will get a huge tax credit from the IRS".

I am looking closely at this my self. Why not. If land you own is recreational and probably all it will ever be, then why not put in into partial or full conservation easement?

If many adjoining landowners do the same, It often enhances property values by eliminating the fear of over development by an adjacent landowner.
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Squeaky
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say, if you want to see the water, then see the water. If you do not want to see the water, then don't 85% do not want to, then don't.... 15% want to, then I say, by all means make a way to see it. Property-shoreline-trees do not have to be ruined in order to make a way to see the water from your place.... Why is it that we seem to have to go with the flow or else? Trees are beautiful but dead ones aren't. They are beautiful when taken care of. Thinned out, etc.
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Al'sOtherSister
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one said...or else..
Nuff said...no more from me...thank you!

Except this...



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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:34 am    Post subject: shore Reply with quote

More of Kevin's posts That I support

Thanks Lisa

"Take what you want and leave the rest" is very good Suzy

I like Mikes Quote

Squeaky . Good thinking

The repeat of Mikes Post as of Jan 26 2007 is:

"People convinced against their will are of the same opinion still"

I always enjoy Conis post!

I may have forgot some one

As of now I am going to hit the sack
Good night
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