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Shoreline Preservation
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:24 am    Post subject: Question from a registered voter Reply with quote

Needless to say, I have received several emails expressing dismay, anger, and shock about the flippant reaction to my email in the township meeting 1-18-07. I think the sound bite is now in the BBI forum. Judge for yourself.

I get the impression that there is no endeavor or sense of responsibility by the township board to care for BBI's remaining natural areas. And that is why I am asking you this question which was provided to me by an island voter: Beyond the State and County zoning regulations, what initiative is the township board working on to "preserve and maintain the beauty and unique features of BBI"? What are you doing?

As always, I am sending this to several other interested parties. Your answers to me will be forwarded. I will also post them on the forum so that you can "communicate openly, honestly and often with all residents and keep them informed".

Because so many property owners are not on the island in the winter, does not mean they are dead. Please use the forum to communicate with us. Please.

Disturbing natural areas unnecessarily is an important issue across the country. It would be encouraging to see our township board communicate not only with words but also in actions Loren's commitment to the "unique features of BBI". Many other progressive and aware communities across the country are addressing this issue. This is a chance for BBI's leadership to promote the island as a community that understands that natural features are the most valuable assets of a community.

Some have told me that I am fighting a battle that I cannot win. What battle? This is not a confrontational issue. This is about improving the future of Bois Blanc Island for ALL residents, property owners, and visitors. It is a chance for the Township to shine.


Italicized phrases are Loren Gibbon's campaigns slogans.
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doug miller
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This talk of the island's future, preservation of the land, etc. is all very good, but it will be as effective as all of the rap sessions my friends and I had in college when we were solving the problems of the world (which is to say no effect) if the issues are not addressed practically and democratically.

My first practical concern is that it is not at all clear that the voters on the island--who are ultimately the ones whose positions on the island's future really matter, are even involved in the discussion. If not, then it is not clear which way they would vote. For all we know, they might already be on board with JEE's position.

Secondly, while I think we all who post here agree generally that we should protect the island's natural beauty, we disagree on just how that should be done. For example, the following is an excerpt from JEE's email to the Board:

"The only way we can have growth and maintain the natural original beauty is to embrace compromise...change only what we have to. Change land to access property and change land to build. Beyond that, we are simply destroying the desirable natural features of Bois Blanc Island."

It is clear to me that several who regularly post here, including myself, have concerns about this position. Specifically, some of us would not favor an ordinance that prevented landowners from cutting some trees to allow a view of the water. And there are other questions about building storage buildings, putting in a play area for kids, etc., etc.

Part of the problem is that the parcels we own on BBI have different features and so require different approaches. For example, I can absolutely attest to the fact that the way West End Piper has cultivated the land in front of his cottage by only taking out dead trees and trimming some branches makes the front of his cottage look like a garden spot. However, for some of us whose property requires us to build much farther back from the water, that approach would not work very well--there would be too many trees. Now I know some will say, there can't be too many trees and that the view is not the point. But others of us will disagree. As I have said in earlier posts, my use of my land (which I pay for and pay taxes on that allows the roads on the island and other services to be provided) has priority over boaters going by who might want to see a shoreline like that on Round Island. Why should their view of my land take priority over my view from my land? It should not. And as I have also said before, I think the view of a well-tended cottage (like West End Piper's and many others) is truly, when set in a natural setting, more beautiful than some "natural" shoreline areas with their tangle of dead or dying trees. I know, this is a matter of opinion, but it is mine and one I think a fair number share.

So it comes back again to this: We can agree that we must protect the natural beauty of the island, but we have to get practical and compromise about how we will do that. I take some comfort in the assumption that many of the voters on the island like it the way it is and will probably tend toward preventing change as opposed to working for change.
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:15 am    Post subject: Showing off a little. Reply with quote

I want to show off a little and let everyone see one example of how a buffer of trees between the lakeshore and the house can look from inside the house. Is this such a sacrifice to my freedom?

http://www.bois-blanc.com/phpBB2/album_page.php?pic_id=1500
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doug,

I don't know if you have studied the DEQ "shoreline overlay" document or not. It is a PDF file. A link to it was posted in this thread. (go back a page or two. Interesting reading to say the least. "Call it a platform of suggestions" regarding shoreline protection and reducing impact.

In my mind, the shoreline overlay concept is very liberal in contrast to the stringent GREENBELT ordinance I have become familiar with as part of the protected rivers act. I believe it is quite "reality based" as far as a compromise between both extremes, and fully considers riparian rights, but as a community whole. And within it is room for variance-exceptions.

I believe this outline has been succesfully implemented in other communities seemingly interested in the same goals, as preservation minded islanders. It is isn't written in stone, which is what appealed to me.

IF anything of this nature were enacted, it would probably need to be by referendum: The right way of approaching this.

Square one is education and bringing this information forward for all to see.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gee Mike???

What were you thinking? Some of those lower limbs on the spruces to the left... Those gotta go! Laughing

What you have is your own personal picture postcard that changes with the seasons. Your trees frame "the view" being part of it.

I am envious.
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Kevin Gibbons
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doug is right on with that post I agree 100% with him. I want to be able to look out my front window and see the frieghters sailboats and the ducks greese swans seaguls and what ever else on the water. Here the waves at night. Here the loons and seeing the loons. I like the trees but I want to see them on the other side of my house.
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NJean
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way I see it is, the majority of the people come to the island because of its rustic nature. I do not see a problem with trying to deter people that want to come to the island to destroy that (within reason). I'm more concerned with commercialization than I am with personal landowners doing what they want with their properties (within reason). I am not real fond of those personality types that move in with the attitude that I will do whatever I want with my property with absoutley no concern for their neighbors. These people will be bad neighbors no matter where you live. If there was a way to deter these people that would be great, but not likely. Some people just don't care and I think that is where John is coming from and every one else that cares about the environment. We need safeguards from these people that just don't care about the neighbors or the environment and I'm not really sure how you could do this without infringing on property owners rights.

If anybody watches the news, it's about time someone paid attention to what is happening to our natural resources or our kids and grandkids etc. will have none. MY BIG QUESTION IS- DOES ANYONE CARE ABOUT FUTURE GENERATIONS?

When you buy your property you have to look at the what if's. What if some idiot comes in and cuts every tree down on his property next to yours. You better have planned ahead on your own property and left enough trees so you don't have to look at them. If you didn't, that is your fault for not thinking ahead. The what ifs will always be out there as far as new neighbors. If you want seclusion, you had better buy 20+ acres and build in the middle of it.

Fortunately about 50% of the island is State Owned and will never see that kind of destruction (hopefully), which leaves somewhat a protective buffer for those of us that are here to escape the city, the suburbs, people and technology.

As far as detering people from the island, I don't think it takes much. I tell my friends and coworkers about the black flies, a zillion mosquitoes, Massauga rattlers, spiders bigger than their hands... They think we're nuts for wanting to come here and that works for me. It doesn't work on my country friends but it sure works on the city slickers.
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:27 pm    Post subject: Preservation Reply with quote

Doug, I read your post. For me, last year was the ventliation discussion. This year I'm doing what I can to see permanent protections put in place. There are many others that are on the same page.

A waste of time is trying to address all the specific issues you pose in your posts. Please go to this link and read it all, ten times or so, and get back to me. OF COURSE one rule does not fit all. I'm for allowing "filtered views" of the water.

http://www.deq.state.mi.us/documents/deq-ess-cm-ftg-appendixs-shorelineprotection.pdf

If every piece of shoreline land presently unmolested (last 200 years +/-) were permanently protected and then put up for sale, who would suffer? Who would benefit? If purchased, the owners are going in with FULL knowledge of what they are buying, and the ramifications if they go against the township regulations. I'm promising you that these properties are more desirable than the "do as you please" parcels elsewhere. There are clients, trust me. Benefits? Just the pristine, natural shorelines. For me it is very simple. We can view the natural beauty of pristine shores, which abound on BBI and are presently unprotected by any township regulations, or look at trailers, vinyl boxes, and other manmade stuff, lot after lot after lot.

Mike, Nice photo. That is a great example of a filtered view.

I'm surprised that sportsman who love wild places can't see the destruction of wholesale clearing to open up a view of the water. That concept of doing what is best for ME is not in the best interest of the community. Recently, a newcomer to BBI is doing exactly what he pleases and essentially has said "F...You BBI. This is my property and I'll do whatever I please. Screw you." This is why we need to act.
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bearing
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

doug miller wrote:


For all we know, they might already be on board with JEE's position.


Part of the problem is that the parcels we own on BBI have different features and so require different approaches.

However, for some of us whose property requires us to build much farther back from the water, that approach would not work very well--there would be too many trees. Now I know some will say, there can't be too many trees and that the view is not the point. But others of us will disagree. As I have said in earlier posts, my use of my land (which I pay for and pay taxes on that allows the roads on the island and other services to be provided) has priority over boaters going by who might want to see a shoreline like that on Round Island. Why should their view of my land take priority over my view from my land? It should not. And as I have also said before, I think the view of a well-tended cottage (like West End Piper's and many others) is truly, when set in a natural setting, more beautiful than some "natural" shoreline areas with their tangle of dead or dying trees. I know, this is a matter of opinion, but it is mine and one I think a fair number share.

So it comes back again to this: We can agree that we must protect the natural beauty of the island, but we have to get practical and compromise about how we will do that. I take some comfort in the assumption that many of the voters on the island like it the way it is and will probably tend toward preventing change as opposed to working for change.


First, Doug, I don't know you and this is not a personal attack:

This post says" JEE's position" I resent this, it is obvious John is taking it upon himself to stand up as the spokesman for many of us. I applaud his taking the initiative!

It is also mentioned (see above quote) that some property owners have to build further back from the water and selective cutting is not an option... god forbid a property owner in this situation creates a nice low impact path and WALKS down to the water.

The old argument of "my property! my business! my taxes! my land! I DO WHAT I WANT " is about a egocentric and anthropocentric (means human centered) as it gets. God forbid we consider the needs of other life on this planet and God forbid we consider the needs of future generations. How do we know what the future will want? Maybe they will want natural shorelines like round island!? Do we really have the audacity to take that away because of our current narrow view of life? Have ever stopped to consider that we have the power to leave the future with a pallet of options to fulfill their needs!?

Sure the above quote is an opinion of many but I also think it is a fine example of the COLLECTIVE UNCONSCIOUSNESS that is plaguing our nation, culture and, unfortunately, heavenly island. I am not saying that this opinion is wrong, who am I to judge. I am saying that this opinion has many many consequences that have not even been recognized let alone contemplated.

***NEWS FLASH*** we live on an island, like or not we are all part of the same community, resident or non-resident. We all care and our families will continue to care for generations. The geographically finite nature of Bois Blanc warrants serious planning for the future.

To quote your BISI organization "failing to plan is PLANNING TO FAIL"

The residents of BBI are in a precarious situation, of course they love and care about the natural beauty, but they also care about their survival and providing for their families. If environmental awareness and shoreline preservation could employ residents and non-residents, you might just hear alot more support.

Again, this post is merely a reaction to another post. It is in no way malicious or directed hurtfully at anyone. Laughing
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Point
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While talking "what if's", what if we are so rustic that it no longer becomes cost effective for a full-time ferry service, or a store is no longer available. What would your property be worth then. I believe in preservation, but we also need business. I personally would like to see a year round store and resturant. It gets very expensive to fly during the winter at $80.00 a trip. Having goods and services during the winter would be great without destroying the beauty. Many of us would like to retire to the island, but the cost and isolation makes it prohibitive now.
I came to the island for beauty, but also it was much cheaper than downstate lakefront or non-lakefront property as far as that goes.
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Point
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny thing, I looked John's entry where he indicated I said F--- BBI. I don't see that anywhere in my post. I did say "I bought the property and will do what I want with it". I don't want an elite group of people telling me what I can and can't do with my property. That sounds like downstate condo association stuff. Your opinion is you want trees, mine is I want to see water. As long as I spent the money I will see water!! If you want all natural shorelines buy the property. You can bet at some time in the future with the low cost of BBI lakefront some downstate investor is going to buy 70-120 acres of lakefront and attempt to develop it, that should be your real concern. If you are unhappy with the present township government, get yourself elected next election. (if you can)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nICE VIEW mIKE.... iS THIS LOOKING STRAIGHT OUT OR AT AN ANGLE? nOW HOW ABOUT A RECENT PICTURE LOOKING OUT IN THE SUMMER WHEN EVERYTHING IS IN FULL BLOOM. wERE ANY OF YOUR TREES TRIMMED? lIKE SO FAR UP?
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Kevin Gibbons
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got an idea why don't all you people that want our shore line left alone buy up the rest of the properity then you can do with it what you want. The only thing you have to do is pay taxes. You can set on the beach and look back at the trees and dream all you want.
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Squeaky
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i AGREE WITH YOU ALL THE WAY kEVIN. eVERYONE THAT HAS A PLACE ON THE SHORELINE HAS CUT A FEW TREES TO BUILD. fACE IT! sOME HAVE MORE TREES THAN OTHERS. tHE AMOUNT OF TREES CUT ALSO DEPENDS ON THE SIZE OF YOUR PLACE AND WHAT YOU WILL HAVE AROUND IT. tHE SURVIVAL OF THE iSLAND AND ITS RESIDENTS WILL AND DOES DEPEND ON A WHOLE LOT MORE THAN JUST THE TREES.
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:18 pm    Post subject: Booklet Reply with quote

I just ordered a 16 page booklet online at no cost to me. I think you must live in a shoreline county to get it at no cost. It is called Yours to Protect, A Guide to Sensitive Shoreline Development. The key word here is sensitive because it is a compromise between no cutting and clear cutting.

http://www.mlui.org/pubs/specialreports/shoreline/order.asp#
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doug miller
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike,

The picture is great. However, it looks like your house is very close to the high water mark, meaning there are not that many trees between the house and the water. But people cannot build that close any longer, which means if we had the same tree density between our cottage and the water, we would not see the water.

Bearing,

The JEE position I was referring to was the one that is in his email to the township, which I quoted in my post. I agree with much of what JEE says and I appreciate what he is trying to do to preserve the island. My point is simply that while many of us agree on the basics, we disagree on specifics and that is something that will have to be worked out democratically.

By the way, I think referring to those of us who believe in having a view of the water as being part of the "collective unconsciousness" plague is, depite your assertion to the contrary, a judgment about our position. But I don't mind because your opinion is as good as mine. Of course, neither of our opinions is practically very important unless we are registered voters on the island--which you may be (I am not).

Point,

Good point.

Kevin,

Now that the election is over, we seem to agree on just about everything! And I especially enjoy the way you make your points. I used to wonder if you were related to Euell Gibbons but I'm starting to think you're not. (Kidding, of course, since I think you and I have a very environmentally friendly position).
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:31 pm    Post subject: Preservation Reply with quote

1) to 'Point": Send me a Private Message with your name and what you are referring to and I will come right out and tell you if you are the person that is saying F--- you to BBI.

All of you people "assuming" things about shoreline preservation need to read the info from the site I've posted twice.

I have to chuckle reading people's concerns. I don't think holding people down and poking needles in their eyes would scare them more than preserving fragile natural features unique to BBI. What are you afraid of?I will say this over and over. People will come here because we have protections.

Bearing:

You are hitting on the real, deepseated, mindset of so many traditional thinkers. Sometimes the saying, "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" applies.

You will be mocked and challenged and made light of...so be it. What you are saying irritates some and pleases others. Let it rip right here and keep smilin'. In the end, preservation benefits ALL, even the naysayers in this forum.

Kevin:

Will you lend me a few bucks to buy all that unspoiled shoreline property?
I'll pay it back, honest.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:16 pm    Post subject: lakeshore Reply with quote

I do not know "point ".... the new guy.. but I really do not think hes going to bulldoze all of his land and make a field out of it ...

He just wants to beable to do what suits him .. without hurting anyone else ....

kevin wants the same and so do I ...
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Rich
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you watch "The Inconvenient Truth" by Al Gore you'll have a whole new fear about shorelines, like where will they end up after rising ocean levels.
I'm not an Al Gore fan but I think everyone should see this documentary.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:25 pm    Post subject: Re: lakeshore Reply with quote

theeislandgirl wrote:
I do not know "point ".... the new guy.. but I really do not think hes going to bulldoze all of his land and make a field out of it ...

He just wants to beable to do what suits him .. without hurting anyone else ....

kevin wants the same and so do I ...


I have NO CLUE to what you just said in your last post. You been to BBI lately?

How can one bulldoze, clearcut or "personally trash" your "own" land to suit your own "personal ideals" with out affecting the value of the adjacent landowners, land? Or the integrity and value of the island, as a whole?

Do you understand this discussion is about future? The LONG TERM BBI ideals, preservation of the island, long after our lifetime? How long since you have been to BBI? Come visit... and be prepared for a shock.

Some of us are thinking forward. Others think things will remain as they have always been, based on how things once were. Times have changed.

This shoreline-preservation initiative may well be a last-call to keep BBi as it IS. Not as everything once was, but what predictably will-be, short of stops.

You need to come to BBI. Take a look. See what's changed... BBI is at a crossroads. You come. You will then understand how us "envoronmental tree huggers" are working to preserve the remanants of YOUR island as you remember it to be.

Love it , preserve it...or leave it. I am prepared to do any.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich wrote:
If you watch "The Inconvenient Truth" by Al Gore you'll have a whole new fear about shorelines, like where will they end up after rising ocean levels.
I'm not an Al Gore fan but I think everyone should see this documentary.


I have watched it 3-4 times. SCARY. Hard to refute data and fact.

My question: How long until the great lakes become mud puddles with more island/rocks than water. Huron /Michigan dropping... down 40". BBi getting "bigger". How big 10 years from now? A mile to the water, from present levels?

Having a "view of the water" a decade from now might be moot. Get some good binoculars to see it WAY OUT THERE... or a 4 wheeler trip to go visit the remaining puddle.

WTF, keep draining/tapping the great lakes. 120" down, a decade from now, is a mile out from the 1986 high water mark.

People are oblivious. Think it just couldn't happen. WAKE UP! It is already happening! Should there be a movie about it, to get it, or what?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:28 am    Post subject: Compromise Reply with quote

Compromise is a good thing and I think the draft ordinace that John directed us to is a good compromise. As I mentioned before, and no one remarked on, is that the draft allows 30% to be cut. That is a lot. It stops clear cutting of the shoreline but allows enought for a great view. Even if you had to place the house quite a way back due to low land, it would still give a good view. There is a middle road.

Doug, my house is about 200 feet from the water but I do have a deep sand Cool beach and the ground does rise up with no low areas. This would not be the case for many. I see your point but I think the draft ordinace addresses your concerns and others quite well.

The goal is to somehow stop the clear cutting of shoreline. People are doing it. It is bad for nature, it is bad for property values.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe it would help to have that info here....

Quote:
Making Shoreline Protections a Reality
How to develop and adopt yoru own overlay
By Jim Lively and Patty Cantrell
Great Lakes Bulletin News Service


Adding shoreline overlay protections to an existing local zoning ordinance is a process of reaching out for expert information and feedback from the public, drafting an overlay, and fine-tuning it for final adoption.

The local planning commission is the group that starts the official process. The planning commission sends a final draft to the local elected body for its approval, which adds the overlay to the community’s current zoning ordinance as an amendment.

Here are the basic adoption steps and items to consider during the process:

1. Check your master plan
Coastal communities should adopt a shoreline protection overlay only if their “master plans” have established that coastal resources are important to local residents.

Master plans are the guiding documents behind all local planning and zoning. They should reflect the goals of local residents, which are made known through a public meeting process. Residents make clear what they value about their environment, economy, and culture and how they want their community to look and function in the future.

A local zoning ordinance is the set of regulations that put the master plan into practice. Only those zoning ordinances that accurately reflect the community’s goals and objectives, as expressed in their master plans, can stand the test of public opinion or hold up in court.

A coastal community that wishes to adopt a shoreline protection overlay should make sure its master plan reflects a strong commitment to protecting coastal resources. If the master plan does not adequately address shoreline resource protection, or is more than seven years old, the community should update it to include language that supports shoreline protection.

Amendments to existing master plans require public hearings, which are good places for communities to start if they have not yet spelled out their commitment to the coast. Most master plans in coastal areas, however, do recognize shoreline resources — scenic views, recreation values, water quality, wildlife — as important local assets. In that case, a public hearing is required only after the local planning commission is ready to amend the community’s existing ordinance to add the shoreline protection overlay.

2. Contact interested parties
The planning commission will make it known at its regular public meetings that it is considering a shoreline protection overlay. Planning commissioners should also reach out to homeowners’ associations, civic groups, and others who would take an interest. It is similarly a good idea to let local elected board members know that the process of preparing an amendment to the zoning ordinance is underway. These elected officials must ultimately approve of the overlay amendment to the zoning ordinance. It is helpful if they, along with interested local residents, understand the rationale of the shoreline protection overlay and the process for adding it to local zoning.

Other important people to contact at this stage are permitting officials in the area, such as the county sanitarian, soil erosion control officer, drain commissioner, and building inspector. Each has a role in reviewing and approving home construction and other developments. The shoreline protection overlay relies on them to perform those duties. But it also allows the village or township to apply additional design standards and to act as the permitting gatekeeper — the one that checks to see if developers have met all requirements. It is wise to consult with these permitting officials early in the process to learn from their expertise and investigate ways local government offices can coordinate their work.

3. Evaluate staffing needs
A community should consider the additional training that its zoning officials will require. The necessary skills include how to evaluate site plans, calculate slopes, define ridgelines, evaluate forest cover, and map general vegetation areas.

Communities that use a resource inventory to map their shoreline protection overlay zone are at a cost advantage here. The inventory map provides zoning officials with information on many slopes, soil types, wetlands, and other details.

If coastal communities do not have their own resource inventory and map, they must require landowners to supply the details. That creates problems for the landowner, who must hire resource experts to do the work. It also creates problems for the community if local officials do not have enough training to adequately review the landowner’s site plan. (See Overlay Zone Boundary-->Overlay Zone Boundary)

4. Prepare a draft
Coastal communities should base their proposed shoreline protection overlays on their master plans, their particular coastal resources, and on the insights of interested citizens, organizations, and other permitting officials. With information and feedback, the planning commission decides on building setback distances, vegetative buffer zone requirements, and any additional restrictions, such as habitat protections and night sky regulations.

The planning commission should select appropriate provisions from model shoreline protection overlays, perhaps refine and add to them, and then work with legal counsel to fit the overlay zone onto the community’s existing zoning ordinance.

5. Hold a public hearing
The planning commission must take its draft overlay zone and protection requirements to an official public hearing for feedback. Preparation for this event can include interviews with the local media and presentations to civic groups and homeowners’ associations.

Depending on local interest and acceptance, the planning commission will hold one or more public hearings and use comments to finalize the draft. Then it will send the proposed shoreline protection overlay to the local elected board for approval.

6. Amend zoning ordinance
The local elected board will also hold a public hearing on whether to amend the community’s existing zoning ordinance and add the shoreline protection overlay. When these elected board members approve the zoning amendment, the overlay will apply to new home construction and developments within the zone’s boundary.
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Al's Sister
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the link for the 8 page PDF file....

http://www.deq.state.mi.us/documents/deq-ess-cm-ftg-appendixs-shorelineprotection.pdf
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Al's Sister
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Education and awareness is the key.. John is trying to do that and I believe he is doing it well.. Educate yourself.. Be aware and look to the future of BBI! Very Happy
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