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Township Addressing System
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:11 pm    Post subject: Township Addressing System Reply with quote

It's said that change is good if done right. Also this site has been flat as a pancake lately, so I thought why not discuss something that will change in the future.

The township will eventually want to assign everyone a street address. The question is, what kind of addressing system?

I came up with a home made one based on a coordinate system that could be used with GIS software. The only problem with my system is that it has no memorable qualities. Example: My home address would be C3839S9465. You could use a GPS unit to locate it, but how could a person remember it. C=central and S=south. The numbers are digits in the UTM coordinate system.

The other option is to do it the old fashioned way. Assign official street names, with or without input from the property owners, and have odd numbers on one side and even on the other side. Example: XXXX Sand Bay Drive. This can be remembered, but GPS and GIS can't be used.

Has anyone got a good Idea?
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pstgermaine
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assign both / numerical address and gps coordinates.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Assign both / numerical address and gps coordinates.


Oh now that'd go over like a terd in a punch bowl!!!
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Laughing You're sooo eloquent, Clover! Laughing
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boisblancgirl
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well......thank you very much, Susie. Laughing
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Ron Petersen
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here in Iowa you go to the Sherriff's office and they assign a number that is in sequence with others on the same road and they put up a small reflective sign with the number on it - It is your address. when you call in on an emergency, your "911" number is available to them without telling them. works great and gives you a great lane marker at night.

Still with all this, I still sometimes have a problem finding my way home at night!
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:03 am    Post subject: Assigning Numbers Reply with quote

I think Clover is right. All the GPS numbers makes it messy. I found a system on the internet called the Natural Area Coding System who swear that theirs is the greatest. Here is how they would address the Washington Monument - 8KDBH PGFDH. Looks like a terd to me Clover. Laughing

Numbers will be assigned when the time comes. I was hoping that someone out there had seen a cool way of doing it. Maybe there is no simple system.

I suppose that a database could be kept where the GPS position is referenced to the street address for emergency services, etc. Maybe it could be included in the tax database. The problem is all the work involved. Should it be done? Would it be worth it?

I was just hoping that someone would know a simple way to incorporate all the new tech stuff into a addressing system. Simple is the key word.
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doug miller
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like something that takes into account form and function; beauty and practicallity.

First, we have to make sure that each street has a name. Hopefully a nice name like Lime Kiln Road or Bible Road or Fire Tower Road and not one of those made up names you see in subdivisions like where Harry Johnson and Jim Backus call it Harry Backus road. No thanks.

Second, since we have a relatively small number of properties on the island, we should start with low numbers and go up. So the first property is 1 Lime Kiln Road and so on. Plus those low numbers just sound kind of nice and appropriate. 42658 Boblo Avenue just doesn't sound right. But 25 Fire Tower Road sounds kind of nice.

Third, if it is helpful for emergency responders, it would be a good thing to tie a GPS site or something to an address. But that should not be part of the mailing address--as was said, sounds like something that belongs in a septic tank.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here in bucolic Mecosta county (which happens to be a square), everyone has a green 911 street address sign. I think it was made mandatory, county wide 3-4 years ago.

All the #mile roads run EW beginning with the lowest #at the south line. Avenues run N.S beginning at the East line. The county is basically a grid of one mile sections. Odd avenues could be something like 47th ave, Half mile roads are named after presidents in ascending order. Someone thought this "system" up 100 years ago. I don't know how well this might work on BBI but the principals are the same as applying coordinates.

Example: If someones address were "4567-50th Avenue".= 5 miles east of the east line, 4.567 miles north of the south line ( roughly 1/2 mile N of 4 mile, between 4-5 mile roads). I believe even numbers are on the east and north sides of the roads and odd vice versa. The simplicity of this system is it's beauty. Drive to anywhere in the county with out a map and figure distance from point A to point B on the fly.

Assuming this same scheme were used on the island, working south to north or east to west. All numbers on any named street, would be a mile reference from a given starting point, but always beginning from the EAST or the SOUTH.

Another Example: If street addresses were given to those on Firetower Rd, which generally runs north-south, an address 0f "2320 Firetower" would mean east side, 2.32 miles from the junction at the main road. 2321 is west side, across the street.

I have seen in other areas where there are winding roads with few homes for reference, small green mile markers are put up.

Anyway, thats how it has been set up around here. Could be this system has been made universal? Just thought of this??? Isn't that how mile markers on Interstates are set up, ascending from the south and east?
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mikewhite
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:42 pm    Post subject: mile markers Reply with quote

Maybe on the main road there could be mile markers East and West of the main dock using the dock as the starting point. So lets say you are anywhere along the road you would know how far from the dock you are. The house numbers on the main road would be like 245E meaning that your house is 2.45 miles East of the dock. This ignores which side of the road though. A lot of houses can fit into a tenth of a mile. That is why I went to hundredths.

The island isn't a square so it would be tough to try the grid thing. I like Dougs method, but if you are the number two house and you call it 2 Cedar Drive, then what would you do if someone builds between you and number one. Could you live with three digits Doug? The first house up a road off the main road officially would be 001. I suppose you could still call it 1.
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doug miller
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guess is that properties would get a number with or without a house.

Having said this, there are probably people who major in this in college! Actually, I wonder if the post office or local police and fire are the ones with the most clout on this?
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Conis
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Insights here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Address_(geography)#House_numbering_or_naming

I don't think it matters that BBI isn't on a grid. Most roads run generally either EW or NS. 4 digits makes it easier to discern which side of the road a house is on, especially where there are several houses close together (Ie the pines).

Using the main road as an example, beginning from the east with ascending numbers, I would think if the dock were used as a central point, the east road would have to be named something totally different than the west road to avoid confusion, Both ascending numerically from the east.

Having one road "Boblo Drive "East" and "West" could cause some confusion any way it is numbered: "I wish to report a fire at 5627 Boblo drive". "Is that Boblo Drive East or West?" " I'm not sure".

Maybe better yet to begin an east-west division right at the fire station?

NS Roads intersecting the main road from the south would have highest numbers at the intersection (length dependant). Numbering would begin at the intersection for roads heading north. I am not aware of any 4 way intersections but I would assume that if there were any, the numbering would continue to ascend northward beyond the intersection?

Here at home, it doesn't matter where a road begins or ends. If it is a mile long NS beginning 3 miles north of the south line, numbers begins at 3000 and end at 4000.

You guys will figure something out... See how its been done in some of the mountain states where roads wind all over the place. There are a lot of goofy roads like that in Emmet county.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remeberd something else.

Couple years back I got a notice from Cheboygan County informing me that any structure which was potentially inhabited needed to be assigned a 911 address number... And the two track I happened to own a lot along the river on, required naming by consensus... And we all had to pay for street signs. Yeah right. No sign up yet.

The Two track was dubbed "John's Way", by the woman who started it all and was the only one responding. She did this because she was living back in BFE, her son in school and needed a street address.

Folks are putting camps on BFE lots accessed by two tracks with no formal names, then get warped with they burn down and the fire department has no clue where to look.

I have no idea what her address is, or how Cheboygan country assigns addresses to meandering two tracks. But that might provide some insights.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am posting over myself here. Just a veritble fountain of useless ideas.

I think Mike is on to something here with East/West split from the ferry dock, Firetower. Pines, whereever.

I like the idea of mile or half mile markers ascending from the EW split. Small 2x4 reflectives with decals, Make them red and green like channel markers "red right return".

Thinking out of the box. Why not make addresses ascending E-W from a split. Boblo is different. This makes the most sense.

I like the 4 digit adress code. Problem is confusion which is why this always seems to begin from the south and east.

Heres an idea. Lets say (hypothetically) the numbers split and start from zero at the center-ferry dock. East - West. 234#= 2 miles, 3 tenths and 4 1/100ths of a mile. But which way? Which side of the road?
Address 2347 boblo drive= 2.34 miles.

Digit 4: Odd= north side, even = south side , 1-4= east. 6-9= west.

Ending 7(or9)= West, north side of the road. 6 or 8 =west, south side. If an east end address, it would end 1 or 3 north or 2-4 south.

Unlikely to have 2 places in 1/100th of a mile on the same side unless a duplex.

All fun and games. If this is going somewhere?
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Ron Petersen
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conis - Just stand at the dock and point everyone which way to go and how many beers it takes to get there - That seems to have worked in the past Laughing
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Rosemary
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think everyone has at least a path that that has a name...like in my subdivision...Pine Place is my path or road. I had to have a physical address for my driver's licence...so I made one up. 100 Pine Place.

So confusing on the island for physical addresses. But I think most have at least a name of a street Question
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:12 am    Post subject: names Reply with quote

This reminds me of the problems my folks were having in Talkeetna..
They do not have a street address so we tell the U.P.S. that they live a 100 feet North of the post office ... it works !!
Of Course you have a bigger problem then my mom and dad ..but I had to put my 2 cents in !!
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Al'sOtherSister
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking that most people have a name for their cabin or property up there.
Why not have a listing at the township, firehouse, etc. of all the property names and directions to get there.
When there is an emergency, then the property owner would just say their property name and the emergency vehicles, or Graham will have a decription on where to go.
If temporary work was happening, they would file with the township, give a name to their work area, and directions.

Just a thought...
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:30 am    Post subject: Where I'm going with this. Reply with quote

The reason I brought this subject up is because the township will need to deal with it in the future. I intend to gather suggestions and then hand it over to them for "input".

People are making up names for where they live. In my case I called my address 1990 Sand Bay Drive based on the year I built it. Rosemary calls her road Pine Rd. but that may or may not be the subdivision name for it. More places are being built and random addresses made up. An addressing system can't be that random. When the time comes the owners address will be changed from the one used for years into something assigned from government. People will not like it. It is a growing problem and I'm not talking about a prostate. Wink

So does anyone else have any suggestions?
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Dan Reynolds
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The simpler, the better. An address system that bypasses existing methods of property identification seems superfluous - "belt and suspenders", as it were.

The primary intent of an address system, as I understand it, would be to assist with emergency response. BBI emergency responders have full access to Island maps and would need to know the locations of access roads, whether or not the roads are named. So, it would seem totally sufficient to stick with section and lot #s, perhaps coupled with reflective signs to mark property entrances along main access routes.

For example, if my property is in Section 17, Lot 5, my address would simply be "1705". It doesn't have to be "1705 Bob-Lo Drive" or anything fancy. There is only one 1705 on the entire island. It's a finite space, so there should be no confusion. All addresses would be expressed in a consistent manner, section + lot. Section 24, Lot P would be 24P.

Access road intersections might also include small reference markers to indicate section# intersections.

Aside from a coordinated emergency response system, there doesn't seem to be a reason to formalize BBI addresses. For unofficial business, folks will continue to refer to places as informally as they always have.

Dan
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Conis
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron Petersen wrote:
Conis - Just stand at the dock and point everyone which way to go and how many beers it takes to get there - That seems to have worked in the past Laughing


Maybe on to something here. So The Spray camp would be like 4.2 beers east and my place would be 5.4 . How do you factor in the P stop kidney overload variable?

Actually I woke up at 3am this morning in a cold sweat. My dream being that everyone on the island had big billboard size signs out in front of their place with huge bar codes on each. And GW was going around scanning everyone. I wont even get into the part about the stop light at Firetower and the left turn lane.

I attribute this vision to spending too much time in Walmart and too much ice cream before I turn in.
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Al'sOtherSister
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan~ your idea seems feasible. And an easy solution.

No matter what happens, these places will always be what they were named.

Conis, I think I would need atleast 6 to get to your place from Mike's, counting the "pause for the cause", and the "reload" beer after. LOL!
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before you get into the address system I think every road needs to be named and regestered, and marked. There seems to be a couple names for the same road on the island. After that it really doesn't mater how the address system is set up for the first responders they will know the road and address and the name of the persons house. The island is not that big. It is like saying I will meet you at the big rock. That is all I would have to say to an islander and they will know where to go to get there. It doesn't have to be complicated at all. Dan had a good idea with lot and section numbers, but I would use a road name. Looking at it from the banking side they require a street address, no PO boxes or Rural Routes but an actuall street address. I know some people aren't going to like street signs but it is time to use them.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin has a good point. Streets have to be formally named. As far as street signs? Those green city type signs ? Must be some alternatives.

"Rocky Road" is known as "Rocky Road" by all. A good name for it. The Real name is Old Orchard Lane (on the plat map) So for my insurance I used my lot number and Old Orchard Lane which I believe to be the official recorded name.

It should be renamed officially as ROCKY ROAD having been called that for ? decades. In fact there has been some discussion about making up a decent looking wooden sign and putting it down by the main road. There is nothing there but a board nailed on a spruce with barely legible paint. Anyone unfamiliar with BBI would NEVER find it, Even worse coming in from Snow Beach end.

This is the problem: many of the roads and trails had names given to them when originally surveyed... that have been informally called something else for so long the latter name has stuck.

So when asked for a an address, best I can come up with is Lot##, Old Orchard Sub, Old Orchard Lane aka Rocky Road. Try and fit all that on one line?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:46 am    Post subject: Pine Place Reply with quote

Mike....according to the books...I do live on Pine Place....it is the number that I made up.
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