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Climate Change?
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Familyman
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:55 pm    Post subject: Climate Change? Reply with quote

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/11/scientific_scandal_appears_to.html
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:27 am    Post subject: site Reply with quote

thanks for sharing this site


interesting !!
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:09 pm    Post subject: Should we risk it? Reply with quote

I don't know if the warmers are right or the skeptics about climate change. Should we risk doing nothing, is the big question mark in my mind. Here is a video that uses some logic to address the issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zORv8wwiadQ
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Familyman
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The argument doesn't hold up. The Global warming scientists perpetrated a HOAX. They have admitted they lied and made up data. So there is no global warming. There is no "what if they are right" column.
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West End Piper
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are incorrect, as usual, familyman. Yawn.
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doug miller
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think a person would have to invest far more time than I have to spend to understand the details of the global warming debate.

But what is really troubling about the recent email disclosure--and what is going to be news for a while because of it==is that the guys who are absolutely the movers and shakers in the global warming movement--the key scientists, have been exposed as scientists who care about more than just science--they care about their agenda.

And the real question is this--if the science supporting global warming is as sound as they say it is, then why are they so unwilling to share their data with the rest of the world? It is clear that they made great efforts to avoid providing that data when asked for it in FOIA requests. It is also clear they tried to blackball those who disagreed with them.

Again, if the science is so clear, what is it they are trying to hide and why are they trying to hide it?

If the globe is really warming in a way that is going to harm it, then we need to act. But if we were simply in a warming period in the late 70s till the 90s (as we were in the 1930s) and we are now in a bit of a cooling period--and if we really do not understand what the reasons for these long term weather shifts are, then we should move cautiously. And this is especially true where we know that the Chinese and the Indians and much of the rest of the world are not going to make changes no matter what we do--which means that manufacturers will flee the US even faster than they already have. The economic impact here will be extreme.

Given that, and given what we have learned of these climate warming proponents, we need to get all views and let others see the info the proponents have access to.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy The key and foremost requirement of REPUTABLE research , is it's ability to be REPLICATED.. SO without the data to backup the claims, replication is NOT possible. You can take it from there.. Exclamation
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Spartan-1
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Earth Science teacher here to comment!!!

Has anyone really looked at the history of the Earth, the previous temperatures, ice coverage, and don't give me that GOD's great creations talk. If you want to believe that, then great, but LOOK into the history of the Earth...remember history usually will repeat, and many science people believe this through their research. We all know that WE are polluting the planet, but in 2 million years you might never know we existed and it won't be because we tried to save the planet. One catastrophic volcanic happening, might just do the trick...their is nothing on Earth we can do stop that, or earthquakes, etc.
Temperatures, sure maybe we can help and we should try...IF it is really going to help...NOT PAD some stinkin greedies with money!!!

GO GREEN
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doug miller
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read today that the original temperature readings that were taken (i.e., the raw data) and that are the basis for concluding that the planet is warming are gone. What is left are the temps as adjusted by the very same people who have made great efforts to hide data and stifle those who disagree with them. Whatever the truth of global warming, this makes it difficult to believe the global warming elite.
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West End Piper
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doug, you're obviously reading from the propaganda column. I have to give those of the republican/big oil/anti-conservation/pro-rapture ilk some credit. Their misinformation campaigns and outright lies have proven to be very effective with your average dim-witted American. As for legitimate science/scientists, they overwhelmingly agree that there is a problem, that man is contributing to it, and that there are things we can do to help, whatever the cause(s) may be. Can we ultimately avoid the destruction of the earth, that Spartan 1 has alluded to? Perhaps not. But, should we play into the hands of the fat-cats of industry and do nothing, because of the mountains of misinformation and outright *poop* that they are heaping upon the world through various media outlets? I think not. And I think that most people, especially the younger generations, see the value in living greener, outrageous corporate profit margins aside. I know it's too late for some of you, but we all need to exercise our critical thinking skills a bit more frequently, so as not to be manipulated by those who would treat us as gullible putty in their hands, as they feather their comfy beds for generations to come. If sea levels did rise to catastrophic levels and 'high-ground' was in short supply, who do you think will have the financial means to ensure that their toes don't get wet and their offspring have plenty of nourishment, while the rest of us starve and drown? You got it. The fat cats who are playing y'all like a cheap violin. It's not easy being a peasant, and believe me, to the aristocracy that pulls the strings and uses our resources like sheets of toilet paper, we are all peasants.
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Familyman
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like Piper has found a religion. As the facts flood out, the "warmers" will have nothing to cling to except a "blind faith" that we are all doomed.
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Familyman
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.climatedepot.com/a/3943/Read-All-About-it-Climate-Depot-Exclusive--Continuously-Updated-ClimateGate-News-Round-Up

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/17357

http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/archives/4731

and on and on and on............................
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West End Piper
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boy familyman, you and Doug sure do post a lot of links to junk websites. Where do you find 'em, Dumfuks 'R' Us? Why don't we ever see a link to the National Academy of the Sciences, or some other legitimate site? Oh yeah....they're not tellin' you what you want to hear.....better to stick with science fiction right? It fits in better with your agenda. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy WhooHoo! Git 'em Piper! If being a caring thoughtful human being is a religion I'm In! :cheers:
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West End Piper
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way Doug, it tickles me the way that you tend to refer to smart people, (ie..scientists, progressives, atheists) as 'elitist'. Now, I suppose that they are elite in a manner of speaking. They definitely have a lot more on the ball than the average 'sheeple', to borrow a John Elmer term. But they are not the 'elites' that you should be worried about. While you've got your eye fixed on the people who are trying to decipher life on earth in scientific terms, using their powers of insight and reason, the ultra-rich are happily running rough-shod over your back, while they distract you with shiny crosses and ancient fairy-tales and medieval thinkng, which you happily gobble up with gusto. Now, although I know that you, like many others, like pining away the hours, wishing for simpler times, the rest of us are taking the 'bull by the horns' and meeting the challenges of the world head-on, with our eyes wide open. There comes a time, when you just have to 'wake up and smell the coffee'. Although, I can't say I hold out much hope for you and familyman. Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's called Humanism Susie. It's all about being a caring, thoughtful, human. Do no harm to yourself or others. There are all kinds of Humanist organizations out there. Google 'em, check 'em out, if you haven't already. Very Happy
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doug miller
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Concerning the original, unadjusted temperature data, it is simply a fact that it was discarded back in the 80s, leaving only the adjusted data.

What Climategate exposes is the simple truth that the so-called pure scientists who believe that man-made global warming is going to destroy the earth have an agenda. That agenda serves many things, including their egos, their bank accounts, their travel budgets, etc. It does not mean they are corrupt (not all of them_, but it does mean that they are not disinterested in their results. Whatever else those emails show, it shows that.

The other reality is that, should we put a huge global warming tax on industry in the US, they will leave, go to China and elsewhere (because you know that the Chinese and Russians and others will not impose such a "tax") and we will buy even more from those countries. NAFTA will be nothing compared to that.

Before we make such a drastic change, I would like to be certain not only that man-made global warming is really occurring, but also that, in the context of the earth's climate history, that it is necessarily a bad thing if it is a slow warming that may in time become a cooling.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

doug-so very true
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ya know,
if W hadn't stolen the election from Gore,
we would have found his strengths long ago,

now were relegated to looking for something we will never find
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West End Piper
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least you're referring to them as 'so-called pure scientists' now, instead of elitist Doug. I love how you can always sense some hidden 'agenda' with scientists, freethinkers, rationalists, or materialists (as you like to call them), but you cannot see the hideously obvious agendas of big oil or big religion. You got yourself some titanium blinders on there boyo! But that's OK. I know you've got them firmly riveted to your skull, so we'll just have to write you off and leave you behind, with the rest of the neanderthals. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have Piper.. The nearest is too far for me to meet in fellowship regularly.. They just started a group in T.C. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a summary of what the e-mails revealed. I would ask you "warmers" to provide proof of Global Warming, but whatever "scientific data" you point to is now garbage.


1 A tiny clique of politicized scientists, paid by unscientific politicians with whom they were financially and politically linked, were responsible for gathering and reporting data on temperatures from the palaeoclimate to today’s climate. The “Team”, as they called themselves, were bending and distorting scientific data to fit a nakedly political story-line profitable to themselves and congenial to the governments that, these days, pay the bills for 99% of all scientific research.
2 The Climate Research Unit at East Anglia had profited to the tune of at least $20 million in “research” grants from the Team’s activities.
3 The Team had tampered with the complex, bureaucratic processes of the UN’s climate panel, the IPCC, so as to exclude inconvenient scientific results from its four Assessment Reports, and to influence the panel’s conclusions for political rather than scientific reasons.
4 The Team had conspired in an attempt to redefine what is and is not peer-reviewed science for the sake of excluding results that did not fit what they and the politicians with whom they were closely linked wanted the UN’s climate panel to report.
5 They had tampered with their own data so as to conceal inconsistencies and errors.
6 They had emailed one another about using a “trick” for the sake of concealing a “decline” in temperatures in the paleoclimate.
7 They had expressed dismay at the fact that, contrary to all of their predictions, global temperatures had not risen in any statistically-significant sense for 15 years, and had been falling for nine years. They had admitted that their inability to explain it was “a travesty”. This internal doubt was in contrast to their public statements that the present decade is the warmest ever, and that “global warming” science is settled.
8 They had interfered with the process of peer-review itself by leaning on journals to get their friends rather than independent scientists to review their papers.
9 They had successfully leaned on friendly journal editors to reject papers reporting results inconsistent with their political viewpoint.
10 They had campaigned for the removal of a learned journal’s editor, solely because he did not share their willingness to debase and corrupt science for political purposes.
11 They had mounted a venomous public campaign of disinformation and denigration of their scientific opponents via a website that they had expensively created.
12 Contrary to all the rules of open, verifiable science, the Team had committed the criminal offense of conspiracy to conceal and then to destroy computer codes and data that had been legitimately requested by an external researcher who had very good reason to doubt that their “research” was either honest or competent.
13 The Director of the Climate Research Unit refused to release any information on the stated ground those requesting it were only asking for it so that they could find out whether it was correct.
14 The Director’s first advice to fellow-members of the Team, recorded in one of the emails released by the whistleblower at the University of East Anglia, was that they should not let anyone know that there was a Freedom of Information Act in the UK.
15 He subsequently wrote to other scientists that he would destroy data rather than provide it to researchers who requested it under the Freedom of Information Act.
The scientists involved then contrived a remarkable number of pretexts for not disclosing data and computer programs to anyone who might request them under the Freedom of Information Act. They discussed –

1 hiding (they repeatedly used the word) behind public-interest immunity;

2 hiding behind the UK’s Data Protection Act, which does not prevent disclosure of data or research paid for by taxpayers;

3 hiding behind advice from the office of the Information Commissioner, the UK official who enforces the Freedom of Information Act;

4 hiding behind the fact that the UN’s climate panel is an international entity not subject to the UK freedom-of-information law,

5 hiding behind reclassification of much of their work as UN work, so as to evade the laws.

6 hiding behind contracts between the Climate Research Unit and other national weather bureaux, on the pretext that weather data that was and is openly published worldwide might be held by some nations to be confidential.

Finally, in 2008 the Director wrote to several other scientists inviting them to delete all emails relating to their participation in the preparation of the previous year’s Fourth Assessment Report of the UN’s climate panel. He wrote this email some three weeks after the University of East Anglia had received a request under the Freedom of Information Act for precisely the information that he was recommending his fellow-members of the Team to emulate him in destroying.
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:41 am    Post subject: s Reply with quote

I appreciate your comments ..doug ..familyman ...squeaky
we are on to something and spartan-1 said a mouth full .

I have been around on this earth long enough to have seen history repeat its self many a time ..
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Familyman
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe this will impact Pipers thoughts. From a news source I'm sure he will respect.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Wt0ZaXu_CA
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West End Piper
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

familyman, your 'summary' means nothing. (You failed to name your source.) It was obviously written by someone wishing to discredit the UK scientists, thereby tainting all climate scientists and their research in the process. As they say, one (or two) bad apples doesn't spoil the whole bunch.

I love Jon Stewart. You guessed right on that one. However, just as I don't consider the FAUX NEWS staffers to be legitimate newspeople, I certainly don't consider Jon to be anything close to 'hard news'. He's a comedian, and a good one. He did a great job of writing a bit from the scraps of this so-called 'controversy'. I laughed my butt off while watching. Jon can make even the most serious and heated matters of debate seem hilarious. But, Jon is a smart guy. My money would be on him coming down on 'my side' of the global warming debate. By the way, the 'proof' of global warming that you seek, has been being compiled for many years, by many different scientists, of many different nationalities. Of course you are going to seize upon this incident of perceived corruption, because it lends support to what you want to believe. Have a ball with it, but the fact remains, that no legitimate, 'earth-shattering', revelations have surfaced from this whole thing. It has served only to get the rabid anti-warmers fired-up for the time-being. Perhaps lengthy reviews and investigations will ensue, but for the science-minded among us, that can only bring good things. It never hurts to re-evaluate data and update your thinking. That's what science is all about. I don't fear the truth.
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