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Climate Change?
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Uncle Steve
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolling Eyes Most profound and TRUE without question statement I have seen yet..


Wink
"hasn't it been warming up since the Ice Age???
And all of a sudden someone noticed it "
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doug miller
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is an interesting analysis of one of the Climategate emails. The guy doing the analysis had already discussed the emails showing that the movers and shakers behind the so called global warming concensus admitted fudging, preventing those who disagreed with them from getting published in respected journals, etc. He then goes on to discuss what he considers to be a very important one. He says:

"Yet perhaps the most important revelation is not the collusion, the bullying, the politicization and the evidence-planting, but the fact that, even if you wanted to do honest “climate research” at the Climatic Research Unit [at East Anglia], the data and the models are now so diseased by the above that they’re all but useless. Let Ian “Harry” Harris, who works in “climate scenario development and data manipulation” at the CRU, sum it up. Mr. Harris was attempting to duplicate previous results—i.e., to duplicate all that science that’s supposedly settled, and the questioning of which consigns you to the Climate Branch of the Flat Earth Society. How hard should it be to confirm settled science? After much cyber-gnashing of teeth, Harry throws in the towel:

“ARGH. Just went back to check on synthetic production. Apparently—I have no memory of this at all—we’re not doing observed rain days! It’s all synthetic from 1990 onwards. So I’m going to need conditionals in the update program to handle that. And separate gridding before 1989. And what TF happens to station counts?

“OH [obscenity] THIS. It’s Sunday evening, I’ve worked all weekend, and just when I thought it was done I’m hitting yet another problem that’s based on the hopeless state of our databases. There is no uniform data integrity, it’s just a catalogue of issues that continues to grow as they’re found.”"

That line: "Its all synthetic from 1990 onwards" suggests that much of the data on global warming is not raw data that other scientists can review and in so doing test the global warming hypothesis. It is already synthetic, i.e., adjusted or modified.

And the admission concerning the "hopeless state of our databases" is also revealing. In short, the Al Gores of the world are telling the American people that they are going to have to dramatically alter their lives, force industry from our shores, pay a huge carbon tax, and all because of a global warming hypothesis that is based on a "hopeless" database.

Now I know we cannot read too much into some of these emails. But these are from the foremost proponents of global warming, the ones that some world leaders rely on. So before we change our lives in the manner they are demanding, I think the science needs to be reviewed. It would be as if the IRS came to you and said, "Well, although we must confess that our computer databases are a mess, it still appears that you owe $100,000 in tax--PAY UP.

My skepticism about global warming is based on several things: One, do you remember how many hurricanes that the climate scientists predicted would hit the US this past year? Well, either do I! But it was several more than the 0 number that did hit. This shows that our climate is a complicated thing with lots of variables and that science is not yet at a point where it can appropriately consider all those variables. And if they cannot predict what will happen within a year, how can they predict what is going to happen with concerning a much more complicated climate issue in 10 or 100 years?

I also have watched those who thought ethanol was the solution to our dependence on foreign oil problem--even though many who looked at the issue knew that one had to use almost a gallon of oil--and maybe even a bit more--to produce a gallon of ethanol.

And none of the so-called alternative energy sources would succeed if they were not heavily subsidized by your tax dollars. We can hope that changes as technology develops. But we should remember that there is no such thing as a free cup of coffee--so even the best alternative energy source will have costs associated with it.

Finally, the whole recycling craze is, while valuable to some extent, not nearly as environmentally sound as is supposed. Again, it is simply a fact that the amount of energy involved in recycling certain products means that recycling might help a bit, but maybe not a great deal.

We got excited about global cooling and the so called "nuclear winter" in the 70s (and no doubt the research dollars back then went to the global cooling believers of the day and not the global warming heretics) and now we are excited about global warming. Maybe man made global warming is happening. But until the pure scientists speak and the propogandists stay quiet, it will be hard to tell.
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Familyman
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doug, that was a great piece. If the truth was what mattered, everyone would be relieved that Global Warming was a hoax. This is not about science or the environment. It's about Global Government and government in general taking over control of every aspect of the individuals life. Redistributing wealth across the globe, and acquiring power. The “what if they are right, we can’t afford to take the chance” argument is over. It’s time to stand up and pick a side based on politics alone. What’s better, Capitalism and Freedom or Socialism and Slavery. Ronald Regan’s solutions worked, Obama’s ??????
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Uncle Steve
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Family man, That should bring Mr. Eloquence, Piper back. Come out and play Piper.. we miss your tactful remarks. Wink
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Rich
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we all agree that our current economic situation is severe. It makes sense to table some of these expensive battles and revisit them after we figue out how to restore our country's "economic superpower status".

I think we need to hold off on hiring lawyers to run our country for a while and find some Ross Perot type candidates. It's scarey how accurate his predictions from years ago have come true.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich~~~~~~AMEN
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keeps getting better..


December 15, 2009
Inconvenient Truth for Gore as Arctic Ice Claims Don't Add Up
London Times
The former vice president said new research showed that the Arctic could be completely ice-free in five years, but the scientist his estimate was based on denies the timeline.
There are many kinds of truth. Al Gore was hit by an inconvenient one yesterday.
The former vice president, who became an unlikely figurehead for the green movement after narrating the Oscar-winning documentary "An Inconvenient Truth," became entangled in a new climate change row.
Gore, speaking at the Copenhagen climate change summit, stated the latest research showed that the Arctic could be completely ice-free in five years.
In his speech, Gore told the conference: "These figures are fresh. Some of the models suggest to Dr. [Wieslav] Maslowski that there is a 75 percent chance that the entire north polar ice cap, during the summer months, could be completely ice-free within five to seven years."
However, the climatologist whose work Gore was relying upon dropped the former vice president in the water with an icy blast.
"It's unclear to me how this figure was arrived at," Dr. Maslowski said. "I would never try to estimate likelihood at anything as exact as this."
Gore's office later admitted that the 75 percent figure was one used by Dr. Maslowski as a "ballpark figure" several years ago in a conversation with Gore.
The embarrassing error cast another shadow over the conference after the controversy over the hacked e-mails from the University of East Anglia's Climate Research Unit, which appeared to suggest that scientists had manipulated data to strengthen their argument that human activities were causing global warming.
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Uncle Steve
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twisted Evil God forbid, Rich... are you suggesting we run the Country like a Business? How could you.. Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:14 am    Post subject: Hope Reply with quote

When all is said and done, I hope you are right about there being no problem. Man has not changed the climate, is a thought easier to bear.
If you are right on this, then we will not need to worry about the future climate being worse for our great grandchildren. I hope the nay sayers are right. I hope that the data is found lacking and messed with.

The alterative is pretty scarry, when no one can agree to do a thing.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://factcheck.org/2009/12/climategate/
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Troy
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And that must be true because its on the internet.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And that must be true because its on the internet.


So... what is religion? Is it techology? Is God, technology? What is "truth"?

Watching CNN this week. New call for world population control. Like China; one woman, one child or big penalty. What is "big penalty" and who calls the shots on this one? New world order?

So then, if global warming is the product of urban expansion and exponential population growth, what has made all of this possible? Technology? I would say technology over the tooth fairy.

By the year 2050, It has been said that the Planet Earth will be at maximum human population carrying capacity. Lifestyle another subject.

So then, If technology has made this expansion possible, right to the brink of extinction, then technology is what we have to save us all? Right?

I would guess that technology as we know it, pretty well usurps all previous definiations of "God" as far as a spiritual human figure overseeing all.. Will "God" save us or will technology? So back to the base question. Define "God"?

Of course, the Internet is "God's voice"; find any information you wish to look for and intrepret as you will. The internet isn't God's voice, it is a sea of collective human information, but not necessarily wisdom.

I aplogize to those who prefer a pre-defined "God in a box" complete with Bible rulebook. Those willing to look outside the box may better see where we are NOW, and what "God" has become in this age. And what some think will be our saving grace. Man has invented and reinvented "God" since the beginning. If the shoe fits.

I don't worship technology as God. Some do. Religion can be anything you want it to be even if you don't recognize or understand what you worship. You read this Piper? The "old God", or the new? To each their own, whatever provides personal comfort.

Sorry for the provoking post.
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Uncle Steve
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wink Wink Very Good TD, very Good, " To each their own"..
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uncle Steve wrote:
Wink Wink Very Good TD, very Good, " To each their own"..


10-Q Steve. Ya...to each their own.

My frail point being that some don't realize exactly what it is they are 'worshiping" and denounce anything-other. God/Religion is wide open and whatever gets highest priority. Like it or not, accept it or not and frame it in whatever terms suit you (us), personally.

I have gone on about the Amish that have contributed to my community. Just by watching these kindred folks and befrending a few of them... Such simple "techo-ignorant" ways. I have learned much by just watching them. Is ignorance bliss? Maybe so. But some of us think we are just beyond all of that. We worship technology. They worship the eariler edition of God as it works for them, horse and buggy style, morals, bible and all. Like their beliefs affect me an iota? Thats their program isn't it? And maybe works better for them than anything I choose to trust in, in these times. I totally absolutely respect these folks. If I respect them and treat them as equals, it is recripoical even being an "English". WTF? We are all humans but just see spirituality in a different way?

What entitles me to be critical of someones take on spirituality?

The simple point I attempted to make is that.... what we worship is what what God and religion always seem to become. That it the history of civilization... From stone statues in the to faster processors and net access? All with some "Godly purpose" behind it all?

Many don't honestly know what they believe in in this confusing day and age. In the box "religion" is an easy way out but doesn't work for me. That's me. What works for the Amish, works for them. And affect me not one iota. Their in the box gig.

We all worship outr own spiritual "God", in the box or out, stone statues, bibles, or faster microprocessors and more on-line wisdom at the click of a button. If you worship Techology... I am not sure it will save us all? Maybe just get us to another galaxy as spawn.

Evolution, I do believe in.

Give it some thought? Look at the big picture? Some unprecidented times may be forthcoming? Have a nice day and don't choke on what you comfortably take for granted, even if the Internet/god said so.

c
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:18 am    Post subject: the world Reply with quote

the world is close to the end .we may be wasting our time worrying about all of this ..we will have to go though a whole lot more before the end though ..this is just the tip of the ice burg but its getting closer ..
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Rich
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to have to blame Tiger for all of this. He was obviously the second coming of Jesus Christ but he discovered golf and women and forgot to do the whole salvation thing.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich wrote:
I'm going to have to blame Tiger for all of this. He was obviously the second coming of Jesus Christ but he discovered golf and women and forgot to do the whole salvation thing.


Thats what I was thinking too... until I discovered the "God is technology" treatise and decided to go with that, instead. I kissed my laptop good morning before I wrote this.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have been doing a lot of reading on magnetic flux engines. Basically they are engines that operate by constantly reversing magnetic poles, like an electric motor, except do not require electrical power to make them run. The magnetic fields are the power, and motion is generated by mechanical reversal of the magnets once they gain momentum. They never wear out (maybe the bearings and magnets, every 10 years or so).

They don't burn fossil fuels, generate CO2 or generate much heat other than minimal friction. Needless to say if this technology does actually exist and is viable, petrolium as as economic base would have about the same value as water. It is easiy to understand why such technology would have been suppressed, And likewise make a lot of discussion about carbon emissions pointless.

Renewable power machines like wind turbines would then be "Fred Flintstone" devices. How much money is being plowed into these technologies? By who?

I remain somewhat skeptical. My nature. BUT... I have seen a lot of amazing things transpire in my lifetime... men on the moon, satellite communications, GPS, internet etc., all of which could have been said to be technically impossible 40-50 years ago. This research isn't being done by one scientist, by by independents world wide, and progress is being made. It is even harder to dismiss this technology as a world wide conspiracy. Because of the internet, research into this can be combined and no longer suppressed.

Where did this technology come from? This is the most interesting part of all and I'll save it for another edition. I will say that it was discovered by military engineers and there is evidence it has been kept under wraps for over 20 years... Only for the military advantage of keeping it top secret and the advantages over potential enemies.

There is a ton of information on youtube about magetic flux technology. Hundreds of demos of working motors driving generators, producing electricity... Some of which is hard to disbelieve... And dispositions by physicists who claim it is possible and is here-now?

Go to youtube and spend a couple weeks researching some of this. Draw your own conclusions. My conclusion is that this technology is front edge and forthcoming. Only thing holding it back is politics and big petro money that has nothing to gain from "free" energy.

BTW, there is no such thing as "free energy". Magnetism is like electricity, and related to same. It is known how it works but not exactly why. It is simply a matter of harnessing this energy. Understanding why it works will unlock this technology and could well be civilizations "salvation".
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Troy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where did all this new technology come from? It was reverse-engineered after the Roswell crash. #Beammeup-alien

Maybe aliens are the gods some ancient societies described?
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Conis
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Troy wrote:
Where did all this new technology come from? It was reverse-engineered after the Roswell crash. #Beammeup-alien

Maybe aliens are the gods some ancient societies described?


I didn't want to go there with that... I did watch a youtube vid given by a high ranking colonel that was involved in some of this "reverse engineering" at Roswell. A lecture/presentation given to several hundred. For some reason he decided to go public... He was made to sign documents of "non disclosure". Whatever. At the end of his lecture he demonstrated a device, on the podium... a working model. No wires, no editing or camera tricks, at least from what I could see. If that was a hoax or conspiracy, it was pretty elaborate.

Of course there are scammers out there trying to sell rights to mag tech inventions "soon to go commercial"... I watched another of a large mag flux engine powering a generator that was proving all the power to a small manufacturing plant. Real or not? And other on mag flux home power stations $25k. Once started... walk away and check the lube once a year. Real or not?

There has been a lot of stuff on History and Discovery about technology used by ancient civilizations... And with more questions than plausible answers. One that comes to mind are these structures built from massive granite blocks. How did they get moved to this site? Even more interesting is that these blocks are cut so precisely and with mortised keys, that they couldn't have been cut by hand... or even with current technology. Examination shows microscopic machine marks on the stone. And they are ??? Milleniums old?

Modern Science? OK We are still in the techological dark ages if you believe in some of this? Maybe some of these secrets will become unlocked? Mag flux power would change the course of civilization.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting back on the subject...
For any of you ninterested in the real agenda behind the "warmers" agenda, Chavez and his Copenhagen mob summed it up and put it out there for all to see.


http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/putting_our_economy_in_the_hands_of_chavez_fans
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Conis
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Familyman wrote:
Getting back on the subject...
For any of you ninterested in the real agenda behind the "warmers" agenda, Chavez and his Copenhagen mob summed it up and put it out there for all to see.


WTF is the subject here? Politics? Moot-obsolete technolgy before the fact? Cut and paste Inet truth as you see things? You have an audience of about one on this website... Looks like it is mostly you.

Ever take note of how this website is supposed to be about BBI and not your politics or political agenda? Or why site patronage has dropped off to near zero? Maybe because folks are bored to death with this crap?

Sorry for pointing out the obvious.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:38 pm    Post subject: Someone has a sense of humor Reply with quote

Saw a news report that said Copenhagen, Denmark has a maritime climate and only had a white Christmas 7 times in the last century. Well, while the delegates debate how bad the warming is, 10 cms of snow fell (a 2 cm cover is considered a white Christmas) and the temps have dropped quite low. Funny.

On a more serious note, there was a very interesting essay in yesterday's Wall Street Journal that provided a sort of historical perspective on climate. What I found most interesting was his discussion of how over time the movement of the earth and sun through space, the rotation of the earth on its axis, and another phenomenon I can't recall all can affect weather and climate. It is easy to forget as we sit seemingly without moving that we are actually speeding through space and spinning at the same time--the earth and its climate is not static and is changing all of the time whatever the impact of humans might be. This does not mean we might not be impacting the climate, but does mean that it is a very complicated science and there is much room for error. Given this, I think we need to slow down those who want to force the West to pay trillions to developing nations to "stop global warming" and in so doing destroy our economy.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:48 pm    Post subject: Accuweather.com Reply with quote

One other note: Accuweather.com has some interesting blogs. In particular, there is one by a meteorologist named Brett Anderson where he displays a variety of different views on the topic. I saw an interesting youtube vid of Joe Bastardi, another meteorologist, explaining why he thinks cooling is more likely.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geeze Doug... Should I take this to mean that this is a complex issue with so many variables that "modern science" can only take an educated guess and probably get it wrong.... and based on that rely on technology to make the necessary corrections?

Or should we keep this on subject and go around in circles about the political/enonomic impact of this misguided fubar??? Misguided however it hits the fan? just give it another year or two?

If you would like, I could cut/paste some links and crap to support whatever you/we would like to read?

Any preferences? Nothing but the truth, and only the truth. Cause I read it on the Internet.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya know, I don't know why I didn't think about this earlier - - Why don't we call "Lush Slimeball" -
I'll bet he also could verbally quote some "cut & paste" help for us Shrug
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