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Familyman
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Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 251
Location: Rochester Hills, MI

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A retired Constitutional lawyer has read the entire proposed healthcare bill.Share
Yesterday at 6:20pm
The Truth About the Health Care Bills - Michael Connelly, Ret.
Constitutional Attorney
Well, I have done it! I have read the entire text of proposed House Bill
3200: The Affordable Health Care Choices Act of 2009. I studied it with
particular emphasis from my area of expertise, constitutional law. I was
frankly concerned that parts of the proposed law that were being discussed
might be unconstitutional. What I found was far worse than what I had heard
or expected.

To begin with, much of what has been said about the law and its implications
is in fact true, despite what the Democrats and the media are saying. The
law does provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior
citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for
illegal immigrants, free abortion services, and probably forced
participation in abortions by members of the medical profession.

The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of
business, and put everyone into a government run system. All decisions
about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats,
and most of them will not be health care professionals. Hospital
admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical
devices will be strictly controlled by the government.

However, as scary as all of that is, it just scratches the surface. In
fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no intention of
providing affordable health care choices. Instead it is a convenient cover
for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government
that has ever occurred, or even been contemplated If this law or a similar
one is adopted, major portions of the Constitution of the United States will
effectively have been destroyed.

The first thing to go will be the masterfully crafted balance of power
between the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of the U.S.
Government. The Congress will be transferring to the Obama Administration
authority in a number of different areas over the lives of the American
people, and the businesses they own.

The irony is that the Congress doesn't have any authority to legislate in
most of those areas to begin with! I defy anyone to read the text of the
U.S. Constitution and find any authority granted to the members of Congress
to regulate health care.

This legislation also provides for access, by the appointees of the Obama
administration, of all of your personal healthcare -- a direct violation of
the specific provisions of the 4th Amendment to the Constitution
information, your personal financial information, and the information of
your employer, physician, and hospital. All of this is a protection against
unreasonable searches and seizures. You can also forget about the right to
privacy. That will have been legislated into oblivion regardless of what
the 3rd and 4th Amendments may provide...

If you decide not to have healthcare insurance, or if you have private
insurance that is not deemed acceptable to the Health Choices Administrator
appointed by Obama, there will be a tax imposed on you. It is called a tax
instead of a fine because of the intent to avoid application of the due
process clause of the 5th Amendment. However, that doesn't work because
since there is nothing in the law that allows you to contest or appeal the
imposition of the tax, it is definitely depriving someone of property
without the due process of law.

So, there are three of those pesky amendments that the far left hate so
much, out the original ten in the Bill of Rights, that are effectively
nullified by this law It doesn't stop there though.

The 9th Amendment that provides: The enumeration in the Constitution, of
certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained
by the people;

The 10th Amendment states: The powers not delegated to the United States by
the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are preserved to the
States respectively, or to the people. Under the provisions of this piece
of Congressional handiwork neither the people nor the states are going to
have any rights or powers at all in many areas that once were theirs to
control.

I could write many more pages about this legislation, but I think you get
the idea. This is not about health care; it is about seizing power and
limiting rights... Article 6 of the Constitution requires the members of
both houses of Congress to "be bound by oath or affirmation to support the
Constitution." If I was a member of Congress I would not be able to vote for
this legislation or anything like it, without feeling I was violating that
sacred oath or affirmation. If I voted for it anyway, I would hope the
American people would hold me accountable.

For those who might doubt the nature of this threat, I suggest they consult
the source, the US Constitution, and Bill of Rights. There you can see
exactly what we are about to have taken from us.

Michael Connelly
Retired attorney,
Constitutional Law Instructor
Carrollton , Texas
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Conis
Resident Royalty
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Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 2198
Location: My New National ID Forehead Tatoo

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTF??? Here we go again.

Another BBI Website politics-spam/ hijack job/circle jerk.

Has it never occurred to some of you that the site has been very slow over the winter, just maybe because people visit to read up on BBI activities, and all they read is politico hash? People love BBI as an escape from this crap?

Debate it until you vomit on facebook or some other venue. Join your club, pick your allies, close your ranks and preach it to an interested audience. (This isn't an election year) This isn't the here-now venue for political bickering: Zero impact. I am not bored enough to read and sort through it all. All day long elsewhere/everywhere. Sort the issues elsewhere.

I believe folks (previously) liked this site as a refuge. Unless relevant to BBI. Give us a break. If it has to do with BBI politics/twp/taxes, then bring it. The site is for and about BBI.

Thanks, 10-Q-Conis
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Conis
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or... start your own political hash BS forum and keep it there. All 3-4 of you trying to persuade each other.
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veva
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Joined: 19 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:05 pm    Post subject: reform Reply with quote

THANKS FOR SAYING WHAT NEEDED TO BE SAID LONG AGO

SAVE THE SITE FOR THE ISLAND!!!!!!!



VEVA
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Rich
Bois & Grills Club
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Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Waterford, WI

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or how about this, if you read a topic's heading that doesn't sound interesting to you DON'T CLICK ON IT.

Conis, you've posted more political opinions on this site then everyone combined so stop acting like Walter Matthau in Grumpy Old Men. Give the guy some respect, he's one of 5 people in this country that read the whole thing.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Familyman didn't actually read it.. Some lawyer he subscribes to Says he did and has a lawyer's opinion about it.. Probably most of that opinion has been debunked by now.. Laughing
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Conis
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah. I have posted my opinions and here's another one.

It isn't election year, And have moved my political gripes to other venues where those that read them, are looking for argument and debate. And that's a good place to post this stuff. Not here.

If you are totally bent, all 4-5 of you, on continuing world politics discussion on this site, we can set up a closed forum (membership) where you can go at it until you puke. I think the former site participants already have puked on it and and come her for a reprieve, not an update. "don't click on it" Ok. I am not clicking on it either, any of it. Who can cut/paste and out url the next guy? Who cares?

Go on Facebook, pick your common interest and debate until you turn inside out.

Site traffic is near nil and I believe non relevant content is a major reason why.
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Rich
Bois & Grills Club
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Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Waterford, WI

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was referring to the author, I don't agree that it isn't interesting. He apparently has some credentials.

I'm wondering if there is a new law against raising premiums to an unaffordable rate? If the insurance companies can do that the preexisting condition clause, among others, may be useless. I hope that's not the case.
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Familyman
We Wanna Stay!
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Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 251
Location: Rochester Hills, MI

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we need some government intervention here. A task force should be sent in to weed out the violent malcontents that would dare speak out against our supreme leader. How dare they.
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Al's Sister
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, Conis, We all have suffered thru plenty of this and with the Tax Party being as they are, I find myself compelled to put out the facts.. Not the what ifs or maybe it will or whatever.. The debate wasn't put out there by me and probably won't be finished by me but I will speak my mind in the most pleasant way possible about this topic.. I put this out to provide information, NOT DEBATE.. You know me and it takes a lot for me to get heated up about something.. I don't want a debate.. I just want to post some facts.. Let people educate themselves with what there is out there about the facts. If like minded people appreciate what I'm offering then I did my part..

I will NOT stop posting my interests and concerns.. This is an open minded site and I have been reminded of that on several occassions when I thought intervention of off topics was needed.. The title of the topic let's people know what is there.. Not interested? I'm ok with that.. Informative and entertaining? I'm on that too.. Want to debate? I'm not interested.. Sorry Bud..


Last edited by Al's Sister on Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

for Familyman I found this....

Quote:

Constitutional objections to Obamacare don't hold up
The federal government has clear authority to regulate interstate commerce, levy taxes and protect human rights, all part of the proposed healthcare overhaul.
OpinionJanuary 20, 2010|By Akhil Reed AmarCritics of Obamacare are now upping the ante, claiming that its basic outlines are not just unwise but unconstitutional. I'm no healthcare expert, but I have spent the last three decades studying the Constitution, and the current plan easily passes constitutional muster.

It's true that the Constitution grants Congress authority to legislate only in the areas enumerated in the document itself. Other matters are left to the states under the 10th Amendment.

But if enumerated power does exist, the 10th Amendment objection disappears.

Under the interstate commerce clause of Article I, activities whose effects are confined within a given state are to be regulated by that state government, or simply left unregulated. But the federal government is specifically empowered to address matters that have significant spillover effects across state lines or international borders.

Federal regulation makes obvious sense if the interstate or international issue involves trade or navigation. But the founders authorized Congress to act even in situations that did not involve explicit markets, so long as the activities truly crossed state lines or national borders. Today, that power properly extends to regulating such things as air pollution that wafts across state lines or endangered species that migrate across borders. In line with this broad understanding, George Washington signed a law preventing Americans from committing even non-economic crimes on Indian lands because such activities did indeed involve "commerce . . . with the Indian tribes."

The healthcare bill clearly addresses activities that cross state lines. These activities are often economic in nature.


And link to total article..

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jan/20/opinion/la-oe-amar20-2010jan20
What your lawyer wrote below I've found to be quite the opposite in everything I've read..
Quote:
The
law does provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior
citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for
illegal immigrants, free abortion services, and probably forced
participation in abortions by members of the medical profession.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Susie:

I enjoy discussing and debating politics and timely hot topics as much or more than anyone else... but I maintain this site is not the proper venue for these discussions: Why? People come here for information about BBI, not health care reform or which party is the worst. Add to this, the same people posting the same slanted opinions repeatedly and most via cut and paste. And then there is the name calling. I just don't have time for it, not here, anyway.

I have joined a number of Facebook forums dealing with the HC reform, Tea Party movement and other current hot topics with many more subscribers. Some are disinformed-clueless and others are very well informed WITH FACTS. Facts work for me, too.

I will send you some links, if your interested. The discussions fast moving and far from circular.

Have at it if you must, I am done with this one.
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Ron Petersen
Lake Mary Muse
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Joined: 22 Aug 2002
Posts: 471
Location: Tipton, Iowa

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am another one that really didn't join this site to see debates about religion, politics etc. - No one is every going to agree on these topics - Usually turns friends into enemys - whether it is one on one or country against country!!

This started out being my get-a-way from work to enjoy the island when I couldn't be there - It's no longer that -
As far as don't look at it if you don't want to read it - I read the first few words to see if it is something I want to read and can see where it is going and leave it - But I shouldn't have to!!!
There are email attachments at the bottom of most posts - send your posts to the small handful that you think might want to read it !!

When you talk about politics - YOU ARE TALKING POLITICS!!!
When you preach against or for religion -YOU ARE PREACHING!!
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Familyman
We Wanna Stay!
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Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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Location: Rochester Hills, MI

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't worry, repeal ahead.
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West End Piper
Pines Paramour
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Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 392
Location: Sterling Heights/Lime Kiln Point

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dream on.......
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Familyman is still trying to repeal the Civil Rights Bill.. Laughing
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Familyman
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Typical. Don't agree with you on the policies of this administration and I'm a racist. That's exactly what you implied by that comment.
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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Civil rights, to me, is more about expectations of respect for each other then it is race.. Familyman.. I doubt you would agree with me on a lot of things.. The post is about the Facts of health care.. Not retoric or drama.. Your facts are known retoric.. (I can't spell it, but you know what I mean.) If I really wanted to be a crapper about it I could just go back and delete everything you post. You do have concerns and I get that, but this is the wrong topic for it.. Start your own topic.... I get my facts from my President.. I am neither Democrat or Republican. I am a poor patriotic liberal American. I own weapons and was raised with conservative methodist morals.. I believe integrity is the only thing I can take to my grave. But if you toss it bud, I'll sling it back..
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 5:37 am    Post subject: why Reply with quote

why would you use your power just because you can by threating familyman to delete his post ?
we have the freedom of speech just as you do as well ??
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 5:50 am    Post subject: thought hear Reply with quote

My thought about the island site being slow this winter has nothing to do with disussing the world affairs ..I think its healthy for all of us islanders to share our thoughts on whats going on in our world today ..its on all of our minds .. its heavy on our minds ..

mike white did a great job of keeping us in touch with the ice crossing and such ..which I really enjoy ..so you say not many came on this winter ..why not ?? I would think the people that love the island would want to keep up with this news too not just the summer things that go on ......
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Ron Petersen
Lake Mary Muse
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Joined: 22 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ONCE AGAIN Rolling Eyes

Quote:
I am another one that really didn't join this site to see debates about religion, politics etc. - No one is every going to agree on these topics - Usually turns friends into enemys - whether it is one on one or country against country!!

This started out being my get-a-way from work to enjoy the island when I couldn't be there - It's no longer that -
As far as don't look at it if you don't want to read it - I read the first few words to see if it is something I want to read and can see where it is going and leave it - But I shouldn't have to!!!
There are email attachments at the bottom of most posts - send your posts to the small handful that you think might want to read it !!

When you talk about politics - YOU ARE TALKING POLITICS!!!
When you preach against or for religion -YOU ARE PREACHING!!

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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
why would you use your power just because you can by threating familyman to delete his post ?
we have the freedom of speech just as you do as well ??


Note the IF, Connie Faye.. And I could, just because The topic isn't about a debate with familyman.. Do you see me deleting stuff ever? I am a moderator and can do that when people go off topic... It doesn't have anything to do with my power or freedom of speech.. You are off topic as well. Ron and Conis are off topic..The topic is about health care.. Start your own topic about your concerns if you want..
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Squeaky
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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So True when we say that just because we do not agree with Obama we are racist. Do you even know or have a clue what a real racist is? We should be able to disagree and not be called a racist. What an easy way out to throw comments like that. I at times disagreed with President's and was I racist? I am White so therefore, what would you call that? Please lets get off the racist thing. It is getting old. Remember he is part white.

You listen to Obama and think that is all the gospel truth? Wow! Ask those in the military or retirees from the military and ask them what is going on with them or will be going on with them concerning their health care? Things are changing big time for them and these are our men and women that have given you your freedom.... And do not forget that they are run by the government and if things are getting strange for them, think about what will and is going to happen to us-YOU!

Connie.Faye is absolutely right. This site has been dead for the whole winter. People do have things to do but when there is finally a discussion going on, let it be. Have I not read in others subjects, that if you do not like what you are reading then go to another part? You may not like anyone speaking their mind but this is AMERICA...... The man has not got that control over us yet. I am with you all of the way Connie.Faye... Hang in there!

And what about some of the language I have seen on other subjects?
WHO HAS THE RIGHT TO TALK LIKE THAT ON HERE? The hatefulness towards individuals.....The cussing, foul lanuguage? That is not right, worse than this...

And by the way I am not backing a whole lot of Obama and I am NOT RACIST........

Yes, back to health care..... You say that those with pre existing health issues will be covered. Great! Wonderful! Have you read anywhere as to how much it is going to cost these people to be covered? Will it cost so much that they will not be able to afford it and will be fined or will it be another way for the government to have control of these people and say what goes and what doesn't for them? I think you need to read between the lines. We all should. So much could be said. He will have us all poor.

I too agree that we should have freedom of speech here on this site or anywhere just as long as we are not harming anyone or insulting anyone. Use common sense! I am so glad that this computer is not my only way of communication with The Real World. I like this site and there are so many subjects that are discussed and this should be good.

By the way, how is the tavern going to handle the NO SMOKING LAW? Quite interesting as to how it works even on the out door patio's everywhere. Now this subject could start quite a discussion.....
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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Racist.... Hmmmm.. Don't see the word in my comment.. toward anyone..

I do see laughing faces.. And as I said.. Civil Rights, to me is about expectations of respect.. Racism wasn't on my mind when I put it there and still isn't.. But who knows, hey?

Fears of the unknown, ifs, ands, or buts.. Don't put words in my mouth. I will say there sure are a lot of people that believe whatever they want and sure can say whatever they want.. In your own topic.. Call it opposing viewsor whatever you want.


Last edited by Al's Sister on Sat May 01, 2010 3:30 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something you all should remember about our government.. It has some serious checks and balances going on.. Your chosen party is overseeing every aspect of our Presidents job..

Quote:
He will have us all poor.
is not a true statement.. Others have had a hand in that..

I listen to All opinions and respect my President.. I listen to NPR, PBS, CBS, FOX, CNN, World News, Europeon News, Conservation News, Saturday Night Live and Familyman! I get the facts directly from government sites.. Do you think they are posting lies there? No, I disagree with President Obama on some things.. I'm really pissed about his lack of action when it comes to the Asian Carp.. You all think whatever about me and so it is true. You do the same with your opinions about our President.. I check my facts with repuable sites. I talk to military people too.. There are military personnel who feel President Obama is making fine decisions for them.. Decisions made with military advisors! I see the compromises the President made with the Republican party with what they wanted in health care.. Did I cover everything yet? I'm paying attention here..
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