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Ron Paul
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:25 pm    Post subject: Ron Paul Reply with quote

By now I'm sure you all saw that Ron Paul won the CPAC straw poll for president...again!!

Bush=war and debt. Obama=war and debt. Republican. Democrat. Both with the same ol same ol line of BS.

Ron Paul: Never voted for a tax increase in his congressional career. IS NOT a member of the very lucrative congressional pension plan. Gives back part of his congressional budget allotment. He is a doctor that has delivered 4000 babies. He knows what a real job is.

Although he is a republican, he is marginalized by the main stream republicans cuz he is opposed to the corporate welfare subsidies, the militarism of our defense deptartment, and the US foreign aid (Military spending) given to countries like Egypt and Saudia Arabia.

Scream all you want about the "popular" candidates that the two parties will endorse.

Their disgust and marginalization of Ron Paul is an indication that he is the only threat to their spending and palm greasing. He scares the heck out of the greedy criminals that fill our Federal Government. Of course they will call him "outside the mainstream". AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED!

For once, listen to this man. We can create an upheaval in this country simply by telling the two parties that we do not want Business as usual anymore.

This is an honest, hardworking family man, that believes in a strict adhereance to our constitution. And that's not mainstream??

Whadayathink??

Hey, Dan! What's up!!!
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe in Ron Paul !!!

I hope people will LISTEN this time !!!

I BELIEVE !!

I believe in RON PAUL !!!!
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron Paul will never win his party's primary. He will not get the real republicians votes. He will get the republician votes from the people who say there republicians but don't really know what the party stands for. Or he will pull some Independents and a few Democrates. He might pull some tea party because of his son though.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would never vote for him because he is against the unions in this country and one that wants to break them up. And if that ever happened if you aren't corpate america you will be working for peanuts.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin - I know what you are thinking, but I have seen unions in are area that were all for themselves and making so many $$ for the top officials that they forgot the people they are supposed to represent (does this sound like government?) - Too many have gone down and left the workers who belonged with nothing after paying dues forever!! - I do not like organized crime!!!!
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron they have a membership they can vote in different members. And there is enough of them they do have control. If you don't like what the high ups are doing get rid of them it happens all the time. We have elections every 2 years. They used to have a problem firing a bad employing but that has been fixed. All of working people are all better off because of the unions. The do a lot of tranning for there members and that is great. A lot of OCHA tranning. And job tranning. Like aircraft pilots. How would you like to get on a jet and find out your pilot is making his first trip in a year.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He will never win....sorry John.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
They used to have a problem firing a bad employing but that has been fixed


No it hasn't!! - Just one example here is our DOT that my son works for was forced into hiring a gal - She is useless and will not do anything in the line of work - Can they get rid of her? - - - NO!
Not just picking on a gal - they have some male employees they would like to get rid of also.

I was talked into joining a musicians union once - found out that they were overcharging dues so they could have free beer in the garage they held there meetings in (most memebers weren't aware of this) - plus they were paying one of the primary members $150 per month so they could have a monthly meeting in his 2 car garage (where the refrigerator full of beer was)
Everyone should get paid for what they are worth and if they used wasted Union money, it would be much easier!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it has changed. You have to give the union notice on what is taking place then you can fire them. We fired one person last year and two the year befor. These were operating engeers.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My two cents- I've worked in both UAW and Teamster organizations. The first time I met one of my stewards, he brought me a cup of coffee and introduced himself. I quipped that he couldn't buy me coffee as I wasn't a member yet, still probationary. Fast forwarding, I asked him why I was paying dues those first ninety days, but I had no representation. He said not to get to tangled up on the issue of dues, and then he explained why. He said that if I showed up on time every day, sober, and did what they asked of me, my dues would do me absolutely no good. He further explained that the dues that we paid every month were used to keep the 5% of the work force that were worthless, drunken absentees, from losing there jobs. This was in the UAW. The next year, at contract time, the representation allowed a stipulation by management that anyone on the payroll with 30 days on the job was allowed to vote on the contract, a contract which was ratified during summer change over, while we were all on lay off, and as such, not notified of the vote, until we returned to work. What did we get for our problems? ten cents an hour over the next three years, while the unions reps were given $6 an hour over the same period. Vote the bums out and you just get more people in there that saw what the last group did, and feel entitled to the same perks. Pay me what I'm worth and not what the bargaining committee is willing to sell me out for.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have watched a number of Ron Paul's interviews including the the most recent CPAC straw poll. It was just that.... a straw poll which he won "again". My best guess is that Mitt Romney will be on the next ticket.

He has some back to basics insights that are more Libertarian than Republican. His ideas and $.50 will buy a pack of gum regardless of how dialed in he appears to be.

Reality check: In 2012, RP will be 77 years old. He may appeal to some younger voters however I believe his age is working against him.

Straw polls: I don't think the Republicans will make the same mistake they made in 2008. They will put someone in that is more centrist, with credibility that has a snowballs chance of actually winning the next election. Politics and ideas are two completely different things. Push comes to shove and it's all about party support and winning elections.

I'll reserve my comments on Dems status in 2012. I hate to point out the obvious.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:51 am    Post subject: RP Reply with quote

Mitt Romney is Business as usual. More war. More corporate welfare. Romney's healthcare IS Obama's healthcare. Want more of that?

I am so sick of BS politicians. LOOK AT THEIR HISTORYS. Which candidate is fed by the corporate/political money machines? NOT Ron Paul. If you want corporate/military/political fed candidates, then definitely do not consider Ron Paul.

How many times will the masses of Americans endorse the political party favorites? How many times do you like to take it up the butt?

Ron Paul is 77! Great! Obviously, the previous candidates must have been too young cuz look at the fkng hole we are in.

Everyone on this site dissed RP last go around. Well, we got more war, more debt, and more of our freedom was lost.

"DON"T TSA ME, BRO!"

Kevin, there has been an assualt on the middle class and public workers by many politicians and MI Gov. Snyder is amoung them. If you think Ron Paul is going after your dollars think again. The richest MFrs in our society want to up their riches at YOUR expense. Ron Paul actually wants you to keep your money in your pocket. Either party endorsed candidate will continue their assault on YOUR money.

Ron's appeal does not come from the mainstream republicans. They hate him!! And they should. If someone threatened your corrupt stream of corporate political 'donations' and exotic perks you would speak out against him too. Oh, by the way, those perks are YOUR tax dollars at work.

Hey, Rosemary, Mubarak was never going to give up his dictatorship either. But wtf happened there?

It is time for a revolution and it starts by the masses saying we want an honest leader that actually practices what he preaches.

Do not judge him by age or appearance. WTF does that have to do with being qualified to lead this country?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:10 pm    Post subject: RP Reply with quote

Conis: When push comes to shove we are stuck with two dimwits. I'm tired of being pushed and shoved around. FK that! Push back.

To many people have resigned themselves to believeing that nothing can change. And I hate seeing people in my age bracket give up...

Send Ron Paul some dough and help him fight the party/corporate endorsed candidates. Or, just shut up, bend over, smile, and let another party endorsed chump have their way with you.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here we go again.

As far as push coming to shove in the realm of politics, we ALWAYS get stuck with dimwits. Reason? Money is power. Power puts dimwits into puppet positions. Politics and ideas have very little in common. The fact of the matter is that who gets to be the next president is orchestrated well ahead of an election.

Study up on the Bohemian Grove if you want an insight into American politics.

http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/bohemian_grove.html

There was recently an excellent show on this subject: Brian Meltzer' s "decoded", detailing the secrecy and attendees at this annual conference which is pretty much the who's who of the richest and most powerful people on this planet. The ones that call the shots.

For some reason, I don't believe Ron Paul was invited.
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:13 pm    Post subject: RP Reply with quote

Kevin you said, "but (they) don't really know what the party stands for "

What does the Republican party really stand for, Kevin?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoa, wait a minute. What about Obama? The savior. I was re-reading the posts from 2 years ago and you guys were drooling over his anointment. Come on, buck up. Look at all the change. He has done or tried to do everything he said he was going to do. He was as honest as a politician has ever been.
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:09 pm    Post subject: RP Reply with quote

Hey, Right Guy. Welcome to the discussion.

The only time I was pulling for Obama was when the WARMONGER McCain became the other idiot. WOW! What bad choices we had. And we got exactlly what we had before...more war, more debt, more BS.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe we can take this outside the box and into Mr. Rogers Neighborhood of make believe? Lets skip the lesser of evils Republican-Democrat debate for the time being? The term "honest politician" was brought up. Lets work on that one.

I like Ron Paul and his back to basics ideas to get government "straightened out". If the entire government thought like Ron Paul, we wouldn't be in the predicament we are in, would we?. Unfortunately, this is 2011 and not 1776. A few things have changed. Truth is relative isn't it?

Demographics have changed too. The old guard clings to power with the youth wanting change (whatever "change " is) So they vote "change" and for candidates they perceive as young and forward thinking. To hell with wisdom and experience. Paul is 77. This isn't a problem? It sure was for McCain not to even discuss Palin's antics. Whatever. It matters, like it or not.

Lets assume then, that our Government is run by old guard, self serving power mongers. That the Military is much the same and all the deal are brokered then run through the machine. That's not a stretch. That's politics. Money is power. Remember "power to the people" in the 60's-70's? Did Mr Rogers come up with that one.

Lets assume that to fix our dysfunctional, corrupt, self serving government, it would require a total overhaul: bottom to top and inside out. Get rid of ALL the dishonest politicians and replace them with "honest politicians". Under the present system, we have more Mr Rogers fantasy since the fox guards the hen house. (Owns the hen house).

Lets assume the American public becomes enlightened to the folly of all this BS and gets totally pissed off then revolts. Chaos in the streets and basically "pulls an Egypt" so to speak? Not vote the crooks out, revolt and throw them out. Do I endorse this? It doesn't matter because that won't happen. And lets see where things land with Egypt a year from now or with several other countries equally pissed off and on the verge of revolt.

That will never happen in the good ole USA. Not unless things get far worse than they are now.

WHY? Keep reading.

Egypt and other similar countries are/were under dictatorships. Freedom of speech and most other human rights suppressed. No questions about any of it... So they got pissed and enough is enough.

Is the USA a dictatorship? Now... that's a good one, isn't it? We have freedom of speech, right to assembly and can publish what we want. Or in other words rant and rave until the cows come home. So what and then what? Nothing is what. Given these freedoms, we can get pissed and express it all day long and it changes nothing. Zero-zippo-nada. Business as usual.

Why is that? The USA is a democracy and these rights are allowed, is all. We can get as pissed as we want. All day long.

The difference between the USA and say EGYPT is the dangling carrot of perceived control over our government by "election". It's more like a delusion or syndrome or something. Let' em eat cake.

So we have an election and we get to vote for one loser or the other and one wins and the other doesn't... and we were given a choice of which puppet we elected? Oh Well... maybe next term an honest politician will be elected? Head down and tough it out. With this pacification of the voter-sheeples, trying to work within a broken system, thinking is is still a viable solution, I really don't see all out revolt on the horizon. If your a power monger, It's a great system: Do what you want and let them keep fooling themselves with the dog and pony election show.

Free cookies and Ice cream for all the voters. Would you like that with or without a BS topping. Tastes about the same.

I don't care who is running in 2012, it will be business as usual afterward

Ron Paul is a good man but way to honest to win at this rigged card game.

If I have pissed anyone off... Oh well. just my viewpoint.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Very well put TD.. Your journalistic skills are coming through.. Keep it up , and enlighten many more... IT HAS STARTED....
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if our society could handle a true democracy. An old school candidate like Ron Paul is assuming we are adult enough to handle living in a country where the government isn't thought of as a parent. This isn't the same country as a couple of generations back where people entered adulthood at 18. Check your basement, you may have a 30 yr. old child still living in the house and probably playing video games. We are too dependent on government services and as much as I believe in Ron's values I don't believe our current population could handle it.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are not a Democracy.
The United States is a republic, not a democracy. A democracy is a form of government in which the people decide policy matters directly--through town hall meetings or by voting on ballot initiatives and referendums. A republic, on the other hand, is a system in which the people choose representatives who, in turn, make policy decisions on their behalf. The Framers of the Constitution were altogether fearful of pure democracy. Everything they read and studied taught them that pure democracies "have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths" (Federalist No. 10).
If we get the right people representing us we have a chance. And that includes the Supreme Court. I also believe the timing is right. At least to get something started. Now that have witnessed that change for change sake is a huge mistake.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The masses can't revolt.. They don't have the gas money to gather.. The new legalization of marjuana keeps a part of the masses dumbed down enough to keep them down.. People complain all the time but don't bother to educate themselves enough to vote. Then they blame one person ( the president, the govenor) for all the problems, not realizing it takes a legislature to make changes.. Apathy is the problem.. Assumptions, ignorance.. Most who are in the know and comfortable in life would rather the masses stay that way so they can maintain control.. I don't care if the people in control are Dem or Rep., just as long as they remember they serve all the people not just a select few..
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:34 am    Post subject: RP Reply with quote

Conis, EVERYTHING you said I know...everything. You are speaking to the choir.

The fact that "Uncle Steve" agrees with you makes my point.

Mr. Rogers neighborhood is not a place I want to go.

But ANY party endorsed leader that does not want at least a movement toward following our constitution, stopping the militarization of our country, is not a leader that I want. Why would you?

Uncle steve would do anything if it meant greasing his palm with an extra buck. Sorry, Steve, just my observation of you and your politics.

Remember, in the mainstream political arena, a replacement for Obama is just another...Obama.

I will continue to live in my fantasyland pushing for a real leader. If not, we can continue living in a debt laden, warfest fantasyland, not a REPUBLIC.

Party on Garth.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few comments:

I stand corrected: The USA WAS a Democratic Republic.

I totally agree with Rich. The vast majority of the population is clueless about government or how politics REALLY work within it. "Elections" are basically like popularity contests, after the fact. The president, alone, has very little impact on the inner workings of government.

I am not all that pleased with the direction things seem to be heading in the new millennium. Out of control much? When they start having rallies "to restore sanity and/or fear", that does say something... doesn't it. Don't ask me for a road map out of this mess. All I know is how we got here. The self serving misguided government is how.

I am as frustrated and disenfranchised as any. Working within a dysfunctional system doesn't appear an option any longer. Remember "America: Love it or leave it?" Many are packing up.

Change for "the sake of change"? Everything always changes, regardless. All I could add to this is that the direction of this country needs to change because the cliff is directly ahead. The sooner the better. Nor can we go back and fix things to the way they worked in times past.

How short our memories are: This country is still reeling from the eight year Bush-Chaney hijack job aka progressive train wreck that culminated in the fall of 2008. Remember that? When the country nearly financially imploded? Whoopsie. Bad timing for McCain/Palin planning on more business as usual. And where's the closest exit? Any port in a storm, much?

Obama must be seriously derelict in his duties since he "couldn't put it all back together again" in two years, bucking obstructionists and bailing the boat at the same time. I wince to think of the outcome had McCain/Palin been elected. Cliff dead ahead and *darn* the torpedoes. Two stooges and threes a crowd.

So... as a result of government squandering and illegal-pointless military "conflicts" We now have have a deficit in the trillions... all accumulated by the Bush Chaney country club. Remember any of that? Obama wasn't the one that blew all that money propping up private interests under the guise of finding WMDs and "nation building"...

If I have to hold the Obama Country club accountable for anything... it would be for NOT slamming on the brakes and immediately withdrawing from Iraq and Afghanistan... and beginning to downsize or eliminate the hundreds of military bases around the world that no longer serve any strategic purpose whatsoever: WWII and cold war relics that still exist because they can, and because those in positions of power profit by all of the above.

This downsizing could have been put in the works while he had control of congress. He blew it. Instead we get health care reform dumped on the deficit heap?

Just keep them money presses rollin' rollin' rollin' . Pay for this mess with paper that has numbers on it... resembling dollars.

Oh well. Business as usual until further notice.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW:

I am speaking to neither JEE or SP.

There are many more than two sides to anything. Both inside and outside the box.

Quote:
I don't care if the people in control are Dem or Rep., just as long as they remember they serve all the people not just a select few..


And there's the problem in a nutshell: The government is mostly self serving and the citizen peons prop it up with ambivalence and ignorance. But it can all be fixed just by electing an honest-dishonest politician that says the right stuff at the right time and belongs to the right country club.

At least maybe they will ration enough gas to drive to the pot store?
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