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READ THIS! (title edit by Rob) Private roads/public roads

 
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Cindy Childs
Bois & Grills Club
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Joined: 20 Nov 2002
Posts: 218
Location: Flushing, Michigan

PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:23 am    Post subject: READ THIS! (title edit by Rob) Private roads/public roads Reply with quote

Okay everyone, I'm the person who will stir the pot. Someone (I'll leave un-named) took a dozer to our road/trail and widened it, knocking out trees and leaving in general not a pretty sight. No one was nice enough to call and let us know when it happened, but we found out a week later. The road is partially acknowledged by the county and the remainder is just a 4-wheeler trail that crosses on private property and it is not encumbered by any legal ingress or egress attachments. It involves the run-off into Mary's Lake, the wetlands and lowlands or bottomland as they term it. A private property owner (in another section) decided to open up a "road", through someone else property...duh! This is totally illegal. As determined by the Michigan Supreme Court in 2001. Know what you are buying and what routes are your legal ingress and egress to the property before you sign those closing documents, please! Because, ignorance is not an accepted defense. Oh, the appellate court that held you can't claim someone else property for access, is the one we would have to use on appeal after district court. But for now I have to deal with the DEQ, the Health Department, The County Road Commission, The Prosecuting Attorney for the County, a private litagor, and this is just the beginning. I may have to deal with the State Attorney Generals office. Of course I could just ignore it, and let it go and watch the traffic on the "new" road, and lose our end of the lake to erosion and sediment settleing and allow a precident to be set for the island. So what do I do? Be the #evil person and start a fight about it, or be the angel and let it go? The 3rd choice which I find totally distasteful, is to encourage private property owners to put up gates and block access on private drives, so no one gets confused and claims they didn't know that the trail wasn't theirs to use legally as a road. Because as I found out these issues are being decided now, and precedents are being set and roads are an issue on our island, even though the township doesn't own one. So what does everyone else think? Got an idea Conner?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh Cindy! I'm so sorry your neck of the woods is being violated! And the lake to suffer the consequences! It amazes me how some people still think there are no laws that pertain to them when it comes to their activities on the Island.. They overlook their neighbors and have an "I don't care" attitude! I would hope you would pursue this.. Parties can be forced to restore or pay the cost to restore what they have destroyed in some instants. Maybe the county will help you pursue it.. Good luck to you and your neighbors in attempting to maintain the Islands beauty and needs.. Have you seen the road going in at the other end of the Island? Another private owner taking away the Island appeal.. It's too bad they don't understand!! Crying or Very sad
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Cindy Childs
Bois & Grills Club
Bois & Grills Club


Joined: 20 Nov 2002
Posts: 218
Location: Flushing, Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The county has already been there...saturday sent a crew with video camera and digital cameras and survey equipment. The state officials are a little slower, but not far behind. But sadly, that will not return things to what they were. Crying or Very sad I think it is a big possibility that someone on the island was flat out deceived regarding the required permit process, and so they took the job thinking they were ok, when it wasn't. I know that there are a few individuals pretty upset with my husband and I for making the call we did, but in general we can't continue to abuse the island. It was the island's spirit that drew us all here. In this whole mess we were told of at least 6 other trail/road problems, we heard about a west end one. We were told about a suit over legal access on another road/trail. It seems this is just the beginning of a major headache for the island. Quite frankly I don't have any answers, just questions.
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Rob
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I took the liberty of editing the title and making this a "Sticky" so it'll hang out at the top of this forum for a while. I should have done the same with Conis' thread about zoning. Threads like this are one of the things I was hoping for when I created this site. Who else has something to add???

Rob
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Conis
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:13 pm    Post subject: Things that make you go Hmmmmmm... Reply with quote

If I got this right... some dozer bozo just took the liberty to blaze a trail across your property because he felt like it? Like this is 1874 when it didn't matter? Call the county, state, DEQ, EPA, CIA, FBI... Get a lawyer and let them all grind "dozer bozo" up. YOU DIDN'T MESS UP HERE.

We have so few rights and liberties left these days. Stand up for protecting what you have including the right to control what you own. Some guy blowing a road across your property is "way over the top". This isn't about being a jerk or letting it go as minor infringement... This is about a trip to "planet stupid" on a dozer.

This sort of thing makes me nuts. I'd see to it he takes some major time off the old dozer seat. What was he thinking... or was he?

Pardon my blunt opinion. I just call it as I see it.
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Troy
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe it was the same dozer that went wild and plowed down the trees near the Pines dock.
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Pharmer Lana
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw that happen. That was a complete accident. I don't think the two incidents are related at all.
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Dan Reynolds
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What in the... !? What a nightmare, Cindy. And an outrage. You have a whole posse of supporters here to call upon, should you need to.

I will be on the Island in September and would like to see what happened - it's something for which we should all be vigilant. Heck, for all I know, somebody has done the same thing to our property by now (haven't been up yet this year). Luckily, Conis is my new neighbor Razz and I expect he'll be right on top of any such thing.

We used to try to put up "No Trespassing" signs, but people would just steal them (I don't appreciate the irony of that). Things have been left alone, by and large... but then, it only takes a dozer five minutes to change 200 years' worth of landscape.

I am truly sorry to hear that this has happened.

Dan
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Cindy Childs
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Joined: 20 Nov 2002
Posts: 218
Location: Flushing, Michigan

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the support. The more vocal property owners are the less what my neighbor calls 'yuppie monsters' that have no regard for others, will get away with. The DEQ didn't want to take the initial complaint because of the difficulty in getting to the island...a small e-mail to the governor's office solved that, boy was he a bit testy this morning. Smile The criminal investigator for the UP DEQ is on vacation, but will be back in a week. The health department from the county was there the day after I called. I do not want anyone mis-interpreting ...I do NOT believe the dozer guy is the real one to blame. When you are told that yes, all of the necessary permits were applied for and you can start work, what do you do? Now he will ask to see approved copies of all permits before the blade goes down. I still maintain that the property owner who perpetuated this mess is at fault. The calls I have received this week from the island is that the county may have made the situation worse not better. What our title work show is a private subdivision road, now the county says is going to be claimed, but it is only 1.5 miles long and only leads to my house, past that is private land. I do think the more people get involved the less of these situations we will have. I have tried to contact each of the property owners along that trail so they can choose how they wish to respond, it is gratifying to know that so far the majority are willing to take a stand against "improvement". I use that word loosely. I fully resent having to be placed in this position, and yes I have been called a few names this week and it isn't Cindy. I hope anyone who goes to the island checks this trail/road out, and raise your voices! Last I knew it was still "we the people, for the people, and by the people".
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Rob
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Location: Big Rapids, MI., but wishing I was on BBI

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll see if I can get a picture or two this weekend. Sad It sucks that you have to go through this hassle. The island should be a place to get away from these things. Shrug
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autumn
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"and then little johnnie the road got paved and all the city lights were installed so we could see and the wallmart was built where that little cabin was so we could shop 24 hours a day and the.........
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Cindy Childs
Bois & Grills Club
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Joined: 20 Nov 2002
Posts: 218
Location: Flushing, Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to thank all of the ones who have sent us pictures. I am going up this week to meet with an inspector for the DEQ ... where there is a will, there is a way... all agencies are being very cooperative, of course the legal beagle's are taking notes to figure out where we go from here. I hope to have some definite answers in a week. Seems that DEQ has a law (MCL2003) that says no road can be altered within 1000 feet of a Great Lake, Hmmm. Or within 500 feet of an inland lake. I guess that means since it goes right to Lake Huron that great lake will count and since it is really close to Mary's Lake, it will count. Fines get VERY steep when you factor in a great lake. The DEQ will decide everything. so wish us luck! And again Thank you for all of the support! Very Happy
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whitewater960
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Joined: 22 Jun 2003
Posts: 42
Location: South Rockwood, MI

PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Way to take a stand Cindy. I also would blame the land owner. There is nothing like the feeling of being violated and not being able to do something, but you know who the dumb *hind end* is, GET EM'. & Good luck!
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Charlie Trie
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 12:15 pm    Post subject: Please post the name of the bulldozer operator/owner Reply with quote

Island equipment owners/operators know what the rules are, and who owns what property. Checking with the Township office and maps is trivially easy. The DEQ is but a phone call away.

The only way to protect rule-abiding contractors is to publicize the names of the outlaws. I hope that any legal consequences of this activity will include punishment of the dozer owner and operator. The Nuremberg Defense makes no sense.


Charlie
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Rob
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cindy, keep us posted on how this turns out. I saw the carnage a few weeks ago, not a pretty site.
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Dan Reynolds
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I (think) I saw it too. It wasn't clear what they were even trying to accomplish just by chewing up the roadside trees.

However... The cabin (yours?) is absolutely gorgeous.

Dan
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Cindy Childs
Bois & Grills Club
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Joined: 20 Nov 2002
Posts: 218
Location: Flushing, Michigan

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the compliment, Dan. We like our cozy home. When you sit on the front porch and watch the eagles fly across the lake fishing, or we used to see beavers when the lake had them, and we see the loons with their babies on their backs, the wood ducks, merganzers, osprays, got the idea, we feel like we are in Alaska. We built the cabin the Fall of 1993. A small privately owned saw mill up by Escanaba cut the logs and put them up. It took 12 working days to construct and set windows, doors, roof. The garage is frame constructed with matching 1/2 logs from the same place. It needs more closet space though! If we are there, we have a free tour! I keep the hot tea or coffee on all of the time! or other beverages...right neighbors?! When we retire we are building handscribed log homes for a living. We have one right now under construction near Squaw Lake in Kalkaska County. Issue update: The DEQ has been to Lake Mary, I guess once the original call was made it was out of our hands. I hope we will hear what they decide at some point this winter. Under this administration, the state has made the great lakes and the islands within a priority. I grew up with John, the Lt. Governor, he is an avid sportsman and conservationist. We heard over the labor day weekend that there are a few on the island that would like to make us out to be the bad guys. Human nature is pretty amazing! Will post on this topic site any news I receive from legal beagles or the state as we get it.
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Uncle Steve
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Cindy your last post regarding the, "road" was in September... What, if anything has progressed ?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For more discussion on zoning and island concerns please go to Zoning and Ambience topic in the Conservation Corner.. I split this topic and moved all the great discussion there.. Very Happy
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