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Future of the Island?!
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Does increasing development and population on the Island concern you?
yes
67%
 67%  [ 38 ]
no
32%
 32%  [ 18 ]
Total Votes : 56

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Ron Petersen
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sir Charles!! - If you hate to tell Ron Petersen about Mid America - Don't - You haven't impressed me a bit with all of your holdings - unless your'e blowing smoke like many do - This subject has nothing to do with your wealth, and frankly, I don't think many of us give a rat's A$$!!! Most of us are happy with what we have and don't run around bragging about it!
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Uncle Steve
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Very Happy Ron , I don't think anyone is trying to impress the forum, as I see it...using the Market is an example of the PLANNING and COMMITMENT that needs to be implemented to keep the Island as natural as possible.. I for one, feel very strongly that we must Plan Plan and do the research to make it happen.. ( Just like in the Stock Market )

Wink BTW Charlie, where is the rock that gets wireless access, I'd love to join you...
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West End Piper
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with you Ron. Mr. Trie's elitist dribble does not impress me in the least, nor does it have anything to do with the "Future of the island". It's pretty obvious that he's a "Legend in his own mind."

Uncle Steve - Nice attempt at establishing a link between Charlie's "one-man circle-jerk" and preserving the island's natural beauty. Unfortunately - it doesn't fly.
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Ron Petersen
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Ron , I don't think anyone is trying to impress the forum, as I see it -


Uncle Steve - I agree that preserving and protecting the island is what we should all look toward - But I disagree that someone is not trying to impress the Forum - Or why would it be brought up at all??? When I go to the island, the one thing that has impressed me the most in the last 36 years, is how hard it is to tell what someone is worth - Most have always rolled with the flow and didn't try to make you feel inferior. I don't think money will clean up the island!
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Charlie Trie
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uncle Steve - Currently you need clear vision of Cheboygan. As you know there are cell phone modems that work well enough. Unfortunately coverage on BBI is quite spotty. I just switched from Sprint to Cingular. I'll have to see what kind of response ATT gives. My hazy thought is to use 'family and friends' access, and have the other phone hooked into my linux DSL server at home. I don't know if it will work, and at what bandwidth. I know that other Bois Blo'ers use starband and other satellite links. At home, I'm able to crank up WiFi to go 300 feet. I don't know about WiMax. One of my kids built a coffee can antenna and says it's OK (http://www.i-hacked.com/content/view/133/44/).
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Charlie Trie
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron - you're right. I could be blowing smoke. No reason to get uptight. No reason to invoke onanism.

Forget the messenger. The issue should be the message: Is BBI the way you want it? Is it moving in your direction? Is it moving away? Is there something that you think should be done better?

BTW, in Iowa MidAmerican has a 160 Meg windfarm. Do you like it? Does it mar the landscape? Does it kill birds? Is it noisy? Is this kind of green power worth the price?

Clipper Windpower has another 43 Meg of turbines in NW Iowa that sells power to Alliant. They call it Flying Cloud. But same questions.

Take a look at Clipper Windpower. They claim to be building/have built 3000 Megs of wind machines. That's a whole lot of power. They're hooked up with GE. (FWIW, they are listed on the London AIM exchange. They've doubled since that listing in September '05. I make no recommendation. AIM has some aspects of Reg S, but that's another story.)

So; what's this have to do with Bois Blanc?

- These new turbines stand more than 200 feet high. They are said to capture energy from low speed gusts.

- What if some outfit like Clipper/GE discovered the windiness of the Straits?
- And what if they used the power of FERC to stud BBI with them?

(Have you seen the planned off shore Cape wind farm between Massachusets and Nantucket? http://www.capewind.org/)

I don't have a good answer. Perhaps you do.
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Ron Petersen
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charlie - I see what you are saying - we have wind generators here in Iowa and most are impressed with the fact that we can harness the wind to provide power instead of using fossel fuels, oil, etc. - I personally don't think they are unsitely, but can respect anyone that does. We have standby generators in our home town and when they start them up it makes me sick to see how much polution is going into the air with those huge diesel engines. I just thought things were getting off on the wrong track with your finacial posts - Hopefully we can shake hands someday and have a "cold" one together.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went to the tribune and found the article... no subscription and costs $5bucks to look at it.

http://www.great-lakes.net/news/inthenews.html

go here and type in wind turbine in search box, spend 17 hours reading up.

C
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Charlie Trie
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron - I'd be delighted to do that.

Thanks for the offer.
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JessKidder
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! This post topic has really stirred up some discussion! I am happy to see such involvement.

The waste management system on the island is effective but perhaps not efficient nor environmentally ideal. No need to point fingers and place blame, but perhaps an influx of information and energy can remedy the situation.

I have my opinions on many things and many do not agree. Yet I can't help but see the contradiction in some agruments lately regarding the preservation of BBI environment and our capitalist economy. These two issue do not go hand in hand. The dominant political and corporate views that fuel our capitalist economy promote environmental and social progress through increasing economic growth, globalization, and unfettered enterprise. This view assumes the ability of the EARTH to provide infinite resources and to infinitely absorb waste.

An alternative view is often described by some as the Environmental Revolution and many experts with this view are increasingly agreeing that we cannot continue to destroy planetary ecology in pursuit of growth. Research also cites strong evidence that the "market" is failing to correct the urgent environmental crisis and calls for radical transformation of the current system from the household level to the global economy. This new system/view is being built from the local level up and has successfully turned the health of the planet into a major politcal issue by "sounding the alarm" about liabilities of industrial progress. (many thanks to the baby boomers of the 60's and 70's) People at every social level have become engaged with an impassioned sense of urgency. As a result, groups often form and take up an issue. Yet many groups get caught up in one particular issue, get tunnel vision, and are unable to stand back at sufficient distances to see the bigger picture and establish priorities. This raises the question: are we being effective?

Are we (as in each of us ) being effective when we enjoy our isle paradise? when we rant on this forum? when we go about our daily lives?

I am seeking out answers but again this is merely my view of the situation.

In all the discussion of "trash" on BBI I can't help but notice some large gaps in the conversation... what ever happened to REDUCE, REUSE, RECYCLE? Here is another question for anyone interested... when I walk to the "trash" can in my home and I open the lid and am about to drop something in I stop and ask myself.... " Is this item used to the point where it can now be put into a landfill for eternity? where it will take much longer than my lifetime to decompose? and generations after me will have to deal with the consequences?

Using this, my housemate and I are down to one brown paper bag of total waste a week. I recycle and reuse almost everything from the carboard on my cereal boxes ( I cut up and use for note paper) to the plastic bags that package nearly everything these days ( I have not bought zip lock bags or the like in over a year) ( the plastic baggies you put produce in are great for reuse). Luckily there is an adequate recycling program here that accepts glass, plastic (# 1 and 2), newspapers, aluminium etc.

How a community deals with and manages waste is an indicator of its longevity and of the opportunities it will leave for future generations.

Does it bother anyone else that our island paradise already has a LANDFILL?

Again, this is just my view of the subject and is in no way shape or form meant to offend. Wink
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JessKidder
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

and how could I forget.... MANY THANKS AND PATS ON THE BACK TO ALL OF YOU WHO PICK UP GARBAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very Happy it is an incredible way to show you care about BBI! and the future of BBI!
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said, Jess. I haven't bought storage bags of any kind for TEN years! Here's one for ya: If you eat things like potatoe chips in those bags with a super thin aluminum-like foil inside...well if they are carefully opened they are great storage bags for leftover pizza, the other uncooked half of cabbage, etc. No air through those suckers.

I want to meet all the talkers, face to face, that use this forum. I feel POWER in the energies of those talking. Maybe we could brainstorm to leave some sort of island legacy...a legacy that generations hence can enjoy. Agreement and disagreement are part of arriving at consensus.

So many natural gifts are here for us to enjoy! It is our responsibility to do what we can to hand over this awesome land, and its rare natural state, to those that come after us.
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Fitzgeralds
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

STATE LAND RULES www.michigan.gov/dnr
If the camp sites on the north shore belong to the state. Then the individuals that camp on the sites should pay a fee to camp on those sites just as they do on the main land. I would think that the state camp sites on the main land have trash cans and that trash gets picked up by the state (DNR). If the campers pay a fee to the DNR to camp then the fee should cover the cost for the DNR to come over twice a week in the summer and remove the trash that was generated from campers on public land? If there is not enough funds generated from the individuals camping to cover the expense for the DNR to make the trip over twice a week I would think that they could find the funds some where?
You can go to www.michigan.gov/dnr and see the state land rules if there are rules then the rules need to be followed. GENERAL RULES (b) The DNR should provide receptacles for trash on land under the control of the state? #Crazy
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pilotkid
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't followed this topic closely enough to talk knowledgeably about it, and I understand that the dump and getting rid of trash on the island is an important topic...but didn't this thread start by talking about how we stop BBI from becoming another Mackinac? JessKidder, what is the deal with the sustainable development or whatnot that you had mentioned earlier? How do we prevent whats happening on Mackinac- old generation islanders who can't afford thier property tax because multi-million dollar houses are going up everywhere- from happening on BBI? I take it that its something the township (or county maybe?) has to vote for...how much would it take to make that happen?
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Al's Sister
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
STATE LAND RULES www.michigan.gov/dnr
If the camp sites on the north shore belong to the state. Then the individuals that camp on the sites should pay a fee to camp on those sites just as they do on the main land. I would think that the state camp sites on the main land have trash cans and that trash gets picked up by the state (DNR).


Those are primitive sites. No fees and only need a permit for a fire. I know of others. On the Island, on Government Island. Near a few small lakes around me on the mainland.. Just a comment about those rules.. They aren't for ALL State Land! There is a state owned canoe put in near me that has Never seen a recepticle and never will! After years of dealing with the DNR in different areas I've found that the different branches don't shake hands with each other and a lot of the rules are ignored by the DNR because they don't have the funds to enforce them! They don't even have the funds to make a way to collect more funds! The township could ride them about it but it would take years!

The sweetest idea I got from all the comments about trash was the yellow bags by Conis.. Makes the most sense of all! Seems I remember that Curt keeps a dumpster right at the ferry in Cheboygan.. Is that for ferry users? Isn't there a dumpster on the Island side too? When people get their fire permit they get a yellow bag too and told where to put it. Cool
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JessKidder
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pilotkid wrote:
...but didn't this thread start by talking about how we stop BBI from becoming another Mackinac? JessKidder, what is the deal with the sustainable development or whatnot that you had mentioned earlier? How do we prevent whats happening on Mackinac- old generation islanders who can't afford thier property tax because multi-million dollar houses are going up everywhere- from happening on BBI? I take it that its something the township (or county maybe?) has to vote for...how much would it take to make that happen?


Pilotkid, hi, sustainable development is slowly but surely begining to take shape. These discussions on this forum are a start. The twp is updating its master plan and that is also beneficial. Basically sustainable development means community vision... and if the vision on bbi is to NOT be like Mackinaw then there are many tools that can be used to uphold and adhere to the vision. From a vision goals are created and attended to by objectives that measure changes and to see if changes are congruent with the vision and goals.

You will be seeing more of such very very soon...stay tuned and be active! and involved! and encourage other to do so as well Very Happy after all we all the love the island! so why not do everything possible to ensure future generations can enjoy it too?
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West End Piper
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think that allowing property owners to keep their well-maintained campers on their property would be a great way to be "not like Mackinac". Smile Just thought I'd smack the hornet's nest again! Peace.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The sweetest idea I got from all the comments about trash was the yellow bags by Conis.. Makes the most sense of all! Seems I remember that Curt keeps a dumpster right at the ferry in Cheboygan.. Is that for ferry users? Isn't there a dumpster on the Island side too? When people get their fire permit they get a yellow bag too and told where to put it.


I didn't think this idea up. Thats the way they have resolve this in Indian River with the "seasonals". Per bag, the yellow bags may cost a little more but then if you only generate 3-4-5 bags now and then, way cheaper than paying for weekly pickup...

I would think that $3 +/- a bag is more than reasonable. whatever it takes to cover the cost of a dumpster and emptying it. A three yard dumpster will hold maybe 25 full bags. it used to cost about $75 to empty one. If the yellow bag dumpster in by the Cheb ferry dock, it will cost less to empty than on the island.

BTW, these yellow bags have an imprinted plastic draw string to keep them from being "counterfitted" I believe Waste Management services Indian River and probably provides the bags to the grocer "Kens" there. May be as simple as calling WM if they haul the trash on BBI?

Sell them on the ferry or at Hawks. and they go in the YELLOW DUMPSTER.

C
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JessKidder
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am following the "yellow" idea but perhaps I missed the part about who is responsible for disposal of the bags in the "yellow dumpster"? and what keeps people from dumping non-yellow bags in there?

just curious how it may work in Indian River.

Reducing the amount of waste generated is another component that could be helpful, as is garbage separation and recycling...
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West End Piper
Pines Paramour
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the ferry crewpersons would have to unlock the dumpster on the mainland, each time the boat landed. When everyone is clear of the area - lock 'er back up! I think it could work. Smile
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Pines Paramour
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Presently, we haul all of our recyclables back home to Sterling Heights. Now, if there was a receptacle for those items, at the dock in Cheboygan, that would really be nice as well! Does anyone know if they have a recycling program/drop-off center in Cheboygan?
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Erica
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True story: a condo association decided that holiday flags, wind socks, banners, etc. were incredibly tacky. They wanted to ban all such things. To make sure all possible tackiness was eliminated, the written rule said “all banners, flags…” They put it to a vote, and it passed. Several years later, they were taking many condo owners to court for violating the rule by flying American flags post-9/11.

I’m loath to tell anyone what he or she can or cannot do with his or her own property, but nothing is ever that simple. Everyone on this site knows that the emotional worth of Bois Blanc Island far exceeds any dollar amount. It can’t be cut up by lot lines and anything goes. Conversely, what can be set as a “minimum standard”? You have to take your trailer off every year? You have to have a permanent structure with a minimum square footage? You have to let your property “go wild” except for a cleared driveway? You have to clear and manicure all land that is yours?

Whatever standard is set, I hope it has flexibility. My grandfather was lucky. He got land right next door to his in-laws so he had a place to stay while he built his own cottage. There weren’t many regulations at that point, so he could build what he wanted and could afford. In his later years, he was concerned about what the future could hold for BBI. He thought of a number of regulations that he believed would preserve the island. The problem I kept seeing was that if those regulations had been in place before he built his cottage, he never could have driven the first nail!

I’ll admit I’m more afraid of it going suburban than it going junk heap. If someone abandons a trailer and leaves a dump right next to it, the area can be cleaned up fairly quickly. If someone clears land for a mansion with it’s own swimming pool and golf area, getting it back would be next to impossible.

Organizing and trying to write rulebooks is probably a good idea, but communicating with each other may be the best defense. Remember that when you idiot-proof something, someone builds a better idiot! Plan what you can, but be ready for the shot out of left field!

I couldn’t help laughing about the garbage issue. There have been a lot of dumps on BBI. My grandmother and Pat Plaunt used to go out looking for the most beautiful bottles in the very old ones. My father remembers walking from the Coast Guard Chapel to the Pines and seeing 27 Model-T Fords abandoned in the woods!
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JessKidder
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Erica"]
Organizing and trying to write rulebooks is probably a good idea, but communicating with each other may be the best defense. Remember that when you idiot-proof something, someone builds a better idiot! Plan what you can, but be ready for the shot out of left field!
quote]

Pilotkid and anyone interested.... this is sustainability... communicating with eachother! and it will prevent mansions, pools, and golf courses Wink
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veva
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:52 am    Post subject: Island Events Reply with quote

I have seen much discussion about poorly kept property,but no information on enforcement of the new regulations.Can anyone help out with this . Any input on who to contact .would be helpfull.
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doug miller
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A somewhat unrelated question: Would it make sense to have a place on this website for the Township to place information, notices of meetings, proposed changes, information they have learned from the County, the Road Commission, the State, etc.? Seems like it would be relatively easy to do and would help communication to people both on and off the island. I know that most larger government entities have their own websites--but this one might be a good place for the township's. Just wondering what others think? And if enough thought it was a good idea, and Rob agreed and could adjust the website accordingly, I (we?) could go to a township meeting and ask if they thought it was worth considering. Any thoughts?
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