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I'm appalled
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pilotkid
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone build a gallows. Apparently I really DO deserve a public execution. I don't check the forum for 24 hours and am called moronic, unrealistic, and stupid. I clearly stated that I was in the wrong. Troy and Charlie Trie (whoever YOU are) need to get over yourselves. Charlie, YOU get serious with YOUR idea that Graham SHOULDN'T be resonsible for all. As I previously stated, he is THE ONLY law enforcement agent on the island, therefore he'd BETTER be responsible for all of it, regardless of what "district" or "township" is in question. You'd also better think about your idea about an excise to be included in the ferry fee. I'm going to be honest, that's a completely terrible idea. You pay per-use with the transfer station, so for those who've bought the punch-tickets, a tax is over the top. JessKidder's idea about having an environmental officer was good though. I think if one of the volunteer fire fighters could do that job and ASSIST Graham, it'd be great. The pahmplets are also a good idea. Jester, I really appreciate the clarification on where the state draws the line about camping, obviously the people LIVING on the North Shore are in violation of the 7 day rule. Clearly no one (or I guess I should say the "majority" pending more rabid comments from forum users) obtains a camping permit and follows the rules that you've described. Again, accountability. But as for Troy and Charlie Trie, in my own defense I'd like to protest your slander by saying that it seems I'm not any of the names you call me, as it seems at least a few would agree with my stance. Maybe you should call them stupid too.
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Al's Sister
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In defense of Troy and Charlie Trie.. They agree with your stance but not your inaction. Nuff said..
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Jester
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad I could help out. Oh yeah, don't forget to ride the ferry and say hi, LOL. Looking forward to seeing ya.......... Very Happy
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:03 pm    Post subject: Jester Reply with quote

Deckhand Dave ..

Your boat is one of the best things that have happened to the Island of late ..
I really enjoyed the ride and when I come this summer YOU will be seeing me ... Wink
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:10 pm    Post subject: amb Reply with quote

Amb ..
I agree with alot of what you said here ..

We all get up in arms about very important things ... Like a fire on the island .. And we need too ... but we have to becareful what rules we make .. each and every one take freedom away from us ... and isn't that one reason we love the Island so much ????

I think we should have the freedom to go out and camp if theres a spot there .. planning way ahead to get a spot will not work for most of us ...

WE all are venting here and throwing out suggestions and thats a good thing .. we then can try to find a middle ground .....

I just see way too many things that have happened on the island that has not been fair ... and should have never happened on our beautiful island .. our special corner of the world ...

No matter of all the laws someone will breck them and that someone we may never know who it is .. but all of us will have to pay for that someone .. The rules .. the Laws ....
So becareful ... as we make rules we are also making the rules for us too .. ... Let Freedom Ring !!

On that note I will say good night .. And I know I will be back sometime later ...

Have a Grand day and Enjoy the freedons of the island we have left .. !!
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Troy
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't call you stupid, but if the shoe fits....

Seriously though, you thought it was okay to just leave that fire burning and curse the person who left it. What if it got out of control? You wouldn't feel the least bit responsible, even though you didn't light it? You care that little about our island, you just went on and didn't do anything?
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kimi
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was up on the north shore after the 4th and the whole north shore was a mess not just the camping area. I also agree with threeislandgril be carful about the rules you make because you also have to live with them. It seems to that we have a lot of chiefs and not enough Indians. Grahams got his hands full now he's not just the law inforcement but has other dutys and volunteer for many other things. volunteer firefighter also have a big job also they put a lot of hours in with training and work on the fire dept. Iam sure they also don't want to have go around picking up after a bunch of people that don't give a damm about how our island looks.so the next thing is to start doing something ourselfs or you are going to have to PAy SOMEONE to do the job. don't just look at the problem and shake your head and walk away do something it seems to be the problem with the world today to many people don't want to get there hand dirty!!!!!!!!!!!!
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JessKidder
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

did anyone bother to look at www.lnt.org ?? it is the site for Leave No Trace outdoor ethics. Ethics.... maybe that is what we need to enforce rather than rules that may infringe on our freedoms. Yet what type of freedom comes from irresponsible behavior such as unattended fires?

I understand this is a sensitive subject but I would like to see us moving forward toward action rather than treding water in circles....

I also do not think that the possibility of an "Environmental Officer" would be effective as a volunteer position. A small salary that would provide for year round residence on the Island is what we need. There are people abusing the island during every season. I would take on the position in a heartbeat!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!!!!! We don't have to pay anyone or ask for volunteers or make more rules.. We have to look into our own hearts and do what we see needs to be done and pass these ethics on to our own families thru our example. With no feelings of needing to be compensated; feeling proud of ourselves for our efforts to improve should be compensation enough. It shows a level of maturity we all should strive for..

The Leave No Trace site is a good start. Thanks for the link, Jesse. Very Happy
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JessKidder
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Al's Sister, I agree that personal responsibility is the way to go yet there are people that come to the island who are lacking this. we as islanders do and should take pride in our personal responsibility for our Island yet I still feel some sort of Enviro Officer is needed to at least have a presence on the island. If "island abusers" know that there is someone keeping an eye on activity they will be less likely to abuse the island, especially if they are held accountable.

I don't know how many times I have gone to the North shore and found people driving ATVs on the beach, garbage blowing down the beach, camp sites left in shambles ( I did clean up after many ). It seem obvious that the degree of "freedom" in the camping situation is too much for these people(especially when alcohol is involved), they have already abused it. Until there is something done to monitor the situation it is only a matter of time before the worst occurs.

At the very least we could put garbage cans down there, perhaps post a sign reminding people of "ETHICAL" use of our island. And what about fire permits? then we would at least have some idea of where and how many fires are going. I thought Hawks used to issue permits?

I am confident that us ISLANDERS are capable of being personally responsible but I have no confidence what so ever in these "island abusers". I guess what I am getting at is that it is better to try our best (in any way possible) than to have something terrible happen and have to say "if only we had....."

Anyone interested in forming an organization to discuss these issues and move forward in protecting the gem we all love?
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Cindy Riker
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have to be responsible. And part of our responsibility is talking with people we see "wrong doing" the island. Although it would be wonderful to think we could have some person paid to help, hiring a person means money. Money means funding. Funding means more taxes. Now we are into another discussion.
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JessKidder
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, a paid position means money but we can apply for grants to fund the position?? it doesn't neccessarily mean increasing taxes.

personal responsibility in both actions and interactions are essential to island life.

dogs are dogs and cars always seem to be going faster than they really are when your dog is standing in front of it.... Embarassed

Despite inital misunderstandings and miscommunication, Dan and his wife are great ! Cool
sorry Dan

all is well on BBI !!


Last edited by JessKidder on Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:23 am; edited 2 times in total
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JessKidder
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10366_11864-36732--,00.html

check out this link/web page it is for the MNRTF, Michigan Natural Resources Trust Fund. It has been in place since 1976 and provides financial assistance to local governments to purchase lands for outdoor recreation and/or THE PROTECTION OF NATURAL RESOURCES and open space. It also assists in the appropriate development of land for public outdoor recreation. This could help fund a position and I am sure there are other grants we can apply for. Just an idea......
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Squeaky
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We too agree that there are rules, etc. to be followed by anyone and everyone that come to the Island. What the laws and rules are anywhere else in Michigan should be followed at Bois Blanc Island also. Littering, using the bathroom on private property, etc. Leaving paper (toilet paper too) laying around is pretty darn nasty. Trash of any kind left blowing in the wind. Drinking while driving is a no no. Is there not a law saying that there is no drinking on public beaches? How about any beach? How about under age drinking? Bad things do and can happen in the water or on the land due to drinking, even on Bois-Blanc Island. How about leash laws? I do know that our dogs should be leashed. Not only is it a law but also for their protection. Yes, it would be awsome to be able to go to the Island and forget all of this and be as free as the wind but as time goes on and more and more people come to the Island we, all of us need to have rules to go by and set examples of these rules. I myself would rather not approach anyone for what they may or may not be doing. You, we never know as to how this person or persons will react. There are rules to everything we do in life and it will not kill any of us to go by them. It just may save us. Maybe there is a need for more enforcement! Let us all make the Island a safe and fun place to be.
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katie
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is no drinking on the beach???? what?????

well i guess it's a good thing i never do that...
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kimi
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think jesskidder has some very good idea's . but the big guestion is who has the time and is on the island to follow thur on some these idea's. I wish I had the time to but I can't for I have a 40hr a week job and only can make the island on weekends. to deal with the DNR there office are only open during the week.They would possibly give you what is needed if you are willing to pick it up and put it on the lots. they are hurting seriouly now for help but with all the buget cuts can not cover all camp area. I sure would like to help anyway I could it makes me MAD as hell when people come over and trash our island.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:13 pm    Post subject: BBI state park? Reply with quote

Rad all through this...

I have no idea of what happened or didn't happen on the north shore over the 4th weekend??? It sound like a bunch of slobs left a mess. If this be the case, then some unslobs get a pick up and clean up. It is one weekend. Or maybe have a twice annual clean up? Slobs exist. Thats how it is. I hate em too.

The last thing that needs to happen is to get the DNR involved. The old addage: a few spoil it for the majority. Get a bunch of rules/regs and enviro cops patrolling for infractions? Costs money and loses the "island atmosphere" might as well turn it all into a campground for $$$. What next? RV hookups? A dumpster or garbage cans isn't all that offensive and makes the correct "keep ot clean" statement.

A simple problem with a simple solution. Aquire a slob clean up crew and don't start making mandates about all of it.

I saw this "thing" on TV about clubs who off-road race in the desert. ( not the same but it really is) Slobs dump all sorts of garbage out there. Once a year the clubs do a clean up just to keep the areas open and unregulated. ungregulated being the key word. Get my point?

All the discussion aboput island development and change? Thos who want to keep BBI status quo need to police the slobs vigelante style and clean up after them. Pain in the *ss but beats the options.

C
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Uncle Steve
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YES, Conis is absolutely correct.. The less government regulation and intrusion, the better off we all will be.. I'll bet almost every one that cares about the North Shore area makes a trip through each and every time they visit BBI. I know I do. So, lets all agree to police the area as we visit, and chat with the campers as we go.. AND just incase we encounter an unattended fire...keep a 5 gal bucket in the Truck/car/jeep/etc.. I'll bet Clover can help us out with trash disposal that we pick up.. " we could be known as the " North Shore Vigilantes "
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theeislandgirl
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:46 pm    Post subject: yep Reply with quote

Conis .. WELL SAID !!!! Happy Happy Happy

and as far as "city mentality" folks coming to the Island .... It has been happening for years and we do not like it and we have been fighting it for years ... The city folks bring their city laws with them !! Crying or Very sad
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JessKidder
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leash Laws? no drinking on the beach? whoa, this may be getting out of hand. I agree that we don't exactly need the government involved, DNR, DEQ etc but they do help us in many positive ways such as regulating building in wetlands and on the beach.

Rules are made to be broken, that is a simple truth yet raising awareness about ethical island use is effective. I still think some sort of "non-gov" environmental manager is a good idea. This position could act as a liason to the DNR and DEQ and it may even decrease their presence on BBI (a good or bad idea depending on your stance with the state)

Someone to help raise awareness, organize clean ups, and basically just keep an eye on things. Wouldn't it be great to be able to report weekly to the township and fire dept how many fires are on the island that week/weekend? how many campers on the north shore? Not neccessarily regulating them just being aware of them.

If a fire were to break out the fire dept would at the very least know where it is and how many people are in the immediate area. It could provide the information needed to identify potential "hot spots" where fires could get out of hand. Fire precaution is not something to take lightly on our island.

An Enviro Manager could also just be a friendly helpfull person that stops by camp sites and reminds people of "ethical island use" and maybe provides them with a informational pamphlet, offer to dispose of their garbage?? and even figure out some sort of management of human waste? someone recently mentioned those Finish folks "living" on the North Shore.... where are they going to the bathroom? thats alot of human waste for one campsite???

I think its better to be raising awareness than to start churning out rules.

And yes Conis, clean ups are a great idea and should be done all over the island both on the beaches and in the woods!

I also agree that rules and regs would alter the 'island atmosphere" but raising awareness can't hurt one bit. It all comes back to sustainable development which is basically raising awareness, becoming other centered, and managing change (not preventing it).

Someone commented that who would do such a job? I am sure there are plenty of qualified individuals that would jump at the chance to do it ( i know i would Smile

And heck if we islanders really considered this and got the ball rolling we would be so far ahead of the game! so far ahead of the state and many other states! why not collectively protect our island? and work towards ensuring that it is always protected for generations? Heck we could even be a "gasp" role model for other islands and townships?! We could prevent disaster before it even had a chance.
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ambs
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posted a comment on "Future of the Island?!" mentioning the pamphlet idea *partly b/c it fit there as well, partly that I forgot which thread I was on*

Either way, I think it's a great idea and something we should really work to make happen in the near future. This could be the initiative we need to get things moving in the right direction, whichever way that turns out to be in the end.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:44 am    Post subject: Suggestions Reply with quote

A few ideas and suggestions (as usual).

I believe that for the most part, those who own property on the island or frequent the island are already environmentally aware. This is why "we" all come to BBI. "we" are not the problem(s). It is those who think of BBI as one big state forest campground where the DNR polices things and keeps stuff reasonably picked up.

Unless we want to assign this to the DNR, it will become the obgligation of the islanders to oversee it all ,probably as a contribution in time. "Expenses" I don't see as huge, fundraiser dinner or contribution jar at hawks where camping permits are drawn.

Eco brochures are a great idea. Each camper gets one with a permit. A sign out at the north shore "do-bee, dont-bee" wouldn't hurt either. In the above posts is a list of things which ought to be included... plus the riminder that camping on the north shore is a privledge and that campers are guests of the island residents... all free... unless.

Campers need to know where they can drop off trash. Give them a trash bag with the permit. They need to know not to pick the iris' A few wire mesh garbage cans? A dumpster at the ferry dock clear marked "for outbound" campers use.

Putting together a brochure is a piece of cake. I would be more than happy to do it. I have several desktop publishing programs and have done my own promotional business literature for 20 years. Why pay to have it done commercially? It doesn't have to be ultraslick or fancy. One 8.5x11 trifolded sheet, front/back.

With the current printing tech, can have a couple hundred run off at kinkos or staples during lunch. They scan the master, hit enter and printed both sides at once at blinding speed. Run out and update them and have and print another couple hundred. Not like the old days when color printing was really expensive in low volume.

All of the above, brochure, trash containers sign and all... $300-500 to go first class.

Only a matter of forming a comittee and someone taking charge.

I'll likely be on the island for a couple days the end of next week if a hawks meeting can be planned.

my cell is 989 506-6906, Ill be in Indian River after today, PCless and off line.

C
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JessKidder
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

conis, everyone can always use more enviromental awareness, even the islanders, and especially us islanders, and yes especially the tourists. if you look at the new event thread a meeting is planned for July 21.

I don't want to argue but I caution you when you say the the islanders and island property owners are already environmentally aware.... i can recall many instances where this is not the case... i.e. property owners trying to cut corners on codes and not having proper septic tanks... not enviromentally aware.

lets all try to be more open minded
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Rob
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a brochure out there somewhere entitled "Driving and Camping on Bois Blanc Island" (or something like that). It sounds like it might be a good starting point for what you're trying to accomplish. I think I picked up some copies a couple of years ago at Hawk's or Plaunt's or maybe even the Historical Society. I don't have a copy here at home but I do have some at my place on the island. I make sure that I have a copy available to all that rent our place so they know what's expected. There should be some floating around the island somewhere.
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Conis
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JessKidder wrote:
conis, everyone can always use more enviromental awareness, even the islanders, and especially us islanders, and yes especially the tourists. if you look at the new event thread a meeting is planned for July 21.

I don't want to argue but I caution you when you say the the islanders and island property owners are already environmentally aware.... i can recall many instances where this is not the case... i.e. property owners trying to cut corners on codes and not having proper septic tanks... not enviromentally aware.

lets all try to be more open minded


Your right, I don't want to argue who is aware and who isn't... that isn't where we are trying to go with this. I suppose I tend to look at things from my own point of awareness, whatever that may be.

Last year, I sent off for a copy of BBI twp zoning rules/regs and studied it in depth. I can tell you it appears much more restrictive (overall) than say Cheboygan county zoning (or the rest of Mackinaw county for that matter). Beyond that are endangered species building restrictions.

There isn't all that much that can be done about grandfathered substandard structures, sanitation and environmental oversights, pre rules, codes and zoning... except to stop letting those things happen. Which current zoning and rules have?

Change and awareness take time. I do think that overall, awareness levels have gradually increased. What once "flew", no longer will. In saying that, I speak of camper trailers stuck in a cedar swamp with a plywood addition and 55 gallon drum for a septic tank. Then eventually abandoned as a trash heap in the woods.

Now, to bring in your 5th wheeler for the season, a twp permit is required as is an approved well and sanitation. Beats the old days.

So anyway, my thoughts are that those who are "old school" and bend the rules because they somehow think they have rule bending seniority... wil become the minority, if not already.

So,
C

The 21st it is
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