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is it just me or does underage ORV drivers vex you too?
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white+begle
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:14 am    Post subject: is it just me or does underage ORV drivers vex you too? Reply with quote

i see young kids driving around like crazy and without adult supervision all the time on boblo. and im like sooo close to having my license and i see younger drivers going by and i cant drive. it isnt fair.
so does anybody have any input?
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Dan Reynolds
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As someone who learned to drive on Bois Blanc at a very young age, I think the only problem is responsibility, or a lack thereof.

A person's ability to operate a motor vehicle is not so much a function of age. It's a matter of awareness. You have to understand consequences - cause and effect. Driving or riding recklessly can cause damage, injury and/or death. My Dad made sure I was clear on that, very early on. At a minimum, I was told that if I ever did get the truck stuck, or hit a tree, or drive too fast for conditions, that my driving 'fun' was over for a long time.

I see kids taking risks and creating dangerous situations all the time. They don't honestly believe THEY will have to answer for the consequences, should there be any. That is the problem.

I was fortunate. Dad let me steer the old truck around the Island when I was too little to reach the pedals, and then let me drive it myself (with him as passenger) when I could reach. We were back in the woods, with no people or structures nearby - just a lot of trees and two-track roads. By the time I was 12 or so, he'd let me go off around the Island by myself, with the constant reminder: "If you get into trouble in this truck, there will be hell to pay." I learned so much about how to handle a vehicle - it was priceless training. The truck was a 3-speed on the column, manual steering, barely any brakes, and I loved driving it. When that's your first driving experience, nothing much can phase you later in life.

I remember I would take the truck and explore various two-track trails until they ended in brambles, brush and fallen trees... With nowhere to turn around, I learned how to back up that big old truck for miles at a stretch. I never hit anything, never got the truck stuck. These days, not many kids or adults have the chance to get those experiences until it's too late, and they never even learned how to parallel park.

If kids can be taught to drive or ride early, it's great... But instilling responsibility has to come first.

Dan
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white+begle
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:10 pm    Post subject: yeah... Reply with quote

i understand that responsibility plays a huge role, but its against the law. i know back then, when u were young, it was different. but i cant drive and i see 12 year okds driving by, and im stuck on my bike. its not that i dont like my bike, imjust alittle sick of it. getting a little restless. know what i mean?
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Dan Reynolds
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, waaaaay back then... Wink

You'll be driving soon enough, and then you'll be sick of driving and wish you had all the time in the world like you used to have, instead of spending so much time driving everywhere (work, home, work, store, work, school, work...). Plus, the sooner you have to drive, the sooner you'll have the privilege of shelling out nearly $3.00/gallon for regular unleaded gas. Shocked And that's on the mainland!!

Dan
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katie
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i also learned to drive on the island before i was of legal age...i agree, it is very valuable training...i think having a parent or relative teach you to drive is much better...some teacher in a driving class doesn't know you, doesn't know your level of awareness, doesn't know your reflexes or sense of surroundings...i was even lucky enough to learn to drive a stick when i was about 15...i probably wouldn't have been so eager to learn if i had to do so in a city...

i realize it is illegal in some cases and it is driving you nuts, but get over it. you are going to see like a million things like this as you get older...much worse things...co-workers not doing their job but getting paid the same...college kids plagiarizing papers when you have to write your own, 16 year olds drinking like fish when you can't go out...

at least in this case, maybe these kids will turn out to be better drivers.
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white+begle
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, i get what each of you are saying...but what will u say when one of them gets hurt badly or dies? or if they hurt someone else? also it should be theyre parents responsibility to watch them.
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katie
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh no!...we are treading in dangerous waters...this could potentially turn into the snore of a topic involving the bad seeds on the island...be careful white+begle or we will have another long and nasty conversation about whether or not you can responsibly take advantage of the perks of being on the island vs. the law....or even worse, people will start talking about dogs again.
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white+begle
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey i dont want to start anything. dont worry, im not trying to do that. i think maybe your taking it wrong.
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katie
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i am totally not taking it wrong...and i understand your point...and i REALLY enjoy when there is a heated topic on this board...but i can already see where it is going...

"personal responsibilty"

"watch your kids"

"no, this is why we COME to the island, so our kids have freedom"

but i am not raining on your parade..i am more than happy to follow this topic..when things heat up, i check this board like 70 times a day. i'm just warning you...we may have a can of worms situation
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Rob
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think she's poking fun at some of the topics that have "blossomed" here this summer.
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white+begle
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

its not just me, running my mouth and being selfish and jealous. (not that im not jealous, ha ha) but ive seen 7 or 8 year olds on dirtbikes come down a side road, and without thinking, cross the mainroad without looking or slowing down. its pretty hard to see with those helmets, and really hard to hear anything. ive only been on a dirtbike once or twice, and i even know that.
plus , this is a forum about underage driving on boblo not dogs. Smile
so please dont think were getting into dangerous waters. im kinda starting to feel bad i even brought it up. you see i was bored and had nothing else to say.
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katie
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NO! DON'T FEEL BAD FOR BRINGING IT UP!

i am not trying to repress anything that people want to talk about...especially the youth of the board.

I know I am going to regret saying this but i have noticed an heir of ageism on this board that disappoints me...kids take a lot of hits here...i'm only 26--part kid, part adult...

i know the gossip on the island, i know the history...i know the bad things that the adults have done but nobody would EVER talk about that here...nobody would have the balls...it is much easier to discuss the bad behavior of the children than that of the adults because bad behavior is EXPECTED from kids.
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white+begle
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, listen to this. well kids, to a parents observation, are not mature enough to make a smart and educated decision or action. well as being a kid, that means the parent who should be mature and responsible (oh boy here comes the"can of worms" again but i gotta put in my ten cents) should tell the kids not to ride around on the roads. sooooo, it really isnt the kids fault. touche (i dunno how its spelled)

Crying or Very sad we are so misunderstood...
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Ron Petersen
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's too bad a younger person can't come on here and get some guidance or others perspective to a question without being beat on - I thought He was just asking everyone about an opinion!!!!!!!!!!!
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white+begle
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, what he said! oh...and by the way, im a she.
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Dave Cox
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just out of curiosity, is there a minumum age to operate an ATV/dirtbike? I'm not at all familiar with Michigan's laws on offroad usage of these vehicles. In Ohio, (and yes, I know that Ohio's laws are completely irrellevant in Michigan, they're just the only thing that I have personal knowledge of.) ATV's must display an SMV sign when used on road. Generally, the only permissable "on-road" use has to do with agriculture. Dirtbikes are never allowed on public roads. However, there is no minumum age for off-road use of these vehicles. I know the manufacturers generally say 16 and over, but that is probably more for their liability concerns. Begel, I understand your frustrations, and I commend you for taking the "high road" and being mature about it. I also understand that some kids are irresponsible in their use of ATV/dirtbikes. But, from personal experience, observations, and..ummm...improprieties of my own....Adults are capable of waaaaaaaaay more irresponsibility aboard these vehicles than kids are. Anyway, if someone could tell me what the minumum age for operating these vehicles, I'd appreciate hearing them.

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cal'sangel9
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

first off, thank you white+begle for asking opinions on this matter, i've been there too, a young kid at my grandpa's cottage with a garage full of atv's and dirtbikes. i gained my grandpas trust at a very young age, about 11, to ride around our property alone, then at about 14, i was allowed to go wherever. he trusted me, but the sherrif didnt. many a time was i pulled over and told to drive slower, or i'll follow you home now, so needless to say i got a little pissed some times. another thing you brought up was little 7 or 8 year olds riding their dirtbikes...yes they are irresponsible, but the companies made the dirtbikes for their size of body for a reason, to teach and to train...(and to get some money). i've ridden atv's and dirtbikes since i was in diapers, so i know what's up, and one thing is that (you also mentioned helmets so this is where i'm going), they design the helmets so you can see, and so you can hear. i have two motocross helmets, and even w/ the atv or dirtbike running, i can have a conversation as if i weren't wearing it, so w/ time these little kids will get used to the helmet, the dirtbike, and the island roads. so dont fret(i hate that word....fret), about it now, your time will come. believe me, i know what it's like, i got my MI driver's license in april of this year, and in may i moved to Italy (where i now live), where it means squat. so i cant drive...i was able to use it for 20 friggin days...and now i cant, so i hear ya. time will come, and then you can drive and explore the island as you wish...myself and all the other people who had to wait can all agree, it sucks, but when you get it, it's worth it.

dang this is long, sorry, had a lot on my mind about this topic...

"Until next time Boblo"
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I stand up for white+begle 100%. Yound lady, you sure are on the right track. You have a good head on your shoulders. I too remember the good ole days. But like was said, it all should be done with the knowledge and actions of being responsible. Yes, the fun of the Island is so much freedom but there are laws. We should not speak out of both sides of our mouth. Follow laws in one place but not follow laws in another place? #Crazy White+begle thumbs_up!
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white+begle
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well i was reading this little booklet on ORV's and it says you can ride alone 16 and over, and kids under that age can ride with adult supervision. and cal'sangel9, I couldnt hear very well with the helmet on...and the bike wasnt even started(and i dont have hearing problems). thie wasnt an old looking helmet, but i dont have real facts on that. it looked pretty new and i think was bought for my cousin on his bday last year with the dirtbike. im just sayin, when some kid does crash, if one does, then we the "reckless youngins" will be blamed. and thanks squeaky for supporting me.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoops - Sorry about the He/She thing - I just hope you are getting some info that is positive and helpful for you. - we were all young once and I know how I would feel - We used to ride mini bikes (before Atv time) but most of the time I thought with respect to traffic and personal property - never had any problems - I'd have to think the Island is a perfect place to learn ATV riding - but there are laws and I don't know what they are up there - just don't get discouraged and hang in there
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white+begle
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks...im hangin in there. Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must say I agree with white + begle. I too see little kids driving around the island like madmen. I am 14 and am stuck with my bike, as i watch kids half my age, size, and maturity level driving their dirt bikes and 4 wheelers everywhere. The Michigan age for driving them is 16, just as any vehicle. And it is also illegal in Michigan to ride ATVs double, another thing I see quite frequently. It doesn't really bother me to see youngsters riding around on back trails and on their property, but to see a big chain of 10 year olds tearing down the main road on their dirtbikes and 4 wheelers that are way too big for them kind of makes me mad. Now I'm not saying that it wouldn't appeal to me, if the opportunity comes along, or that I'm saying I've never done anything wrong, I'm just saying that a little more dicsipline and rules should be shown, both by the kids' parents and by Graham Whipple. I have had experience with an "ATV", my family's golfcart, whipping through the woods and into the Pines with firends but I always stayed on back trails. And I had permission from Whipple, who knows me quite well. I'd just like you all to know that I am not against kids driving around on their property or back trails, it just angers me and frightens me to see little kids ripping down the main road, around curves without the slightest bit of caution. I know age isn't everything, but I think that someone my age and a little older uses more caution and common sense than an 8 year old. Anybody agree?
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katie
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron Petersen wrote:
It's too bad a younger person can't come on here and get some guidance or others perspective to a question without being beat on - I thought He was just asking everyone about an opinion!!!!!!!!!!!


was this comment directed at me?????? seriously? i did give an opinion AND i encouraged white+begel to talk...
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Rob
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

katie wrote:
Ron Petersen wrote:
It's too bad a younger person can't come on here and get some guidance or others perspective to a question without being beat on - I thought He was just asking everyone about an opinion!!!!!!!!!!!


was this comment directed at me?????? seriously? i did give an opinion AND i encouraged white+begel to talk...
Hmmm...the way I read that was Ron was agreeing with you & Cayla.
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katie
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh, okay...well than that would be great Wink
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