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Shoreline attacks
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:33 pm    Post subject: Shoreline attacks Reply with quote

I took my first kayak cruise Sat. April 22 around Lafayette Point and paddled along the North Shore. This is the 15th year I've viewed this shoreline from the water. I will be candid here. More "slashes" on the shoreline have appeared. To me, it is Mullett lake mentality occurring on the berms of Bois Blanc Island. (any lower peninsula lake mentality) The 'homes' or 'houses' or 'crystal cathedrals' are exposing their contradiction to 'a remote hideaway'. The lure of Bois Blanc Island, the remote, wild, natural shoreline vistas are going the way of most wild lake vistas...clear the trees, bulldoze the berms, open the magnificent transitional cedars, balsams, spruces and pines to the vista of the straits and reveal another irreverent, man made structure. After all, its private property and the owner can do anything he/she wants. I would like to see an ordinance that allows the bulldozing of the driveway into a shoreline property and the clearing only of the construction site. Until that owner actually builds a home, that shoreline should remain essentially untouched. Practical reason number one: protection of the construction process. Roofing felt, 4'x8' sheets of OSB, Tyvek, foam boards, large steel roof panels, and other expensive, fly with the wind materials would be more easily applied and not lost with the protection of the trees. 2) If the owner gets cold feet, the rest of Bois Blanc residents and visitors seeking the natural vistas of the north are not left with yet another thoughtless gash. To see one of these gashes visit me and I will show you the empty, cleared, ugly, ten year old lot next to me on BBI. I cuss at that initial idiot every time I look at that lot. 3) Bulldozing a wide part of a properties shoreline allows winds to pummel the adjoining property and damage someone elses now unprotected trees. That's inconsiderate. 4) During the building process, the owners will have a chance to experience the spectacular landscapes that exist right under their feet, and not only the view of the water. Perhaps, a less aggressive approach might be nurtured during this time.

Until excavators, real estate salesman, builders, and owners encourage preservation of the shorelines, the appeal of timeless, wild, shores will be just a memory on Bois Blanc Island just as they are only vague memories on Mullett Lake, Burt Lake, Higgins Lake, Houghton Lake, Bud Lake, etc.

I am not being negative. I am telling it as I SEE it.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We too have a naked shoreline but not of our own doing.
Mother nature saw fit to remove at least 30 to 40 trees from our property in the Thanksgiving gale.
Does anyone know of a portable sawmill as we have cedar logs cut and ready for sawing. What a mess!!!
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West End Piper
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Elmer - I'm with you on the clearing of the trees. Unfortunately, there isn't much we can do about it, other than to extoll the benefits of leaving them in place, such as: Soil preservation - Having trees and their roots in place, helps to hold the soil together and keeps it from eroding rapidly. Property protection/comfort - I know of neighbors who have to protect their screened porches etc.... with heavy plastic or wood coverings in the winter to protect them from the wind, snow and ice. The cedars in front of my place, provide ample protection from the elements. Neighbors who have cleared, or thinned the trees substantially, often have snow drifts all the way up their driveways, to the access road, behind our cottages. My cedars stop the snow in front of my place and I can navigate my driveway with ease, in the springtime, plus I don't have as much snow piled up around my house, in the winter. Privacy - We love the feeling of seclusion and privacy that our trees afford us. (You cannot see our house, from the water) They also dampen the sound of the various boats, watercraft, cars and voices in the summer months. We could have a lovely view of the Mackinac Bridge, from inside of our cottage home, were we to remove some of our precious cedars. (As it is, I have to remove several trees that have died/fallen each season) Several visitors to our place, have suggested that, we need to clear some more trees, so that we can improve our view of the lake and the bridge. To which, I will reply politely, "If we want to see the bridge, we just walk on down to the beach and take a gander." Smile My kids can play in the shade of the trees, in their sand-box, in view of the lake and the cottage, on those hot summer days....As we were preparing to build, Reinhardt Jahn, (Excellent builder - crew led by Ted Spray) told us he needed 15 ft. of clearance, around the perimeter of our home's footprint. That is all we cleared. Anyway, we love the privacy and protection of our forward trees. I hope that any future home builders, will consider leaving more of their trees in place out front, for the reasons I have mentioned here. Smile
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Erica
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe we should encourage people to build up instead of out. The front area of our cottage was cleared out before I was even born (it's in the Pines), but I'd like to plant a few native trees along the roadside.
We have a second floor balcony and the view is wonderful. If people took the square footage up by adding an additional floor, or put in an observation deck on the roof, they could leave more trees between them and the water while still having an outstanding view.
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:41 pm    Post subject: Shoreline lovers Reply with quote

West End Piper, you are on the same page as me. You cannot see my cabin from from the berms much less the water. I, too, love the seclusion. I, too, have often said, "If you want to stare at the awesome expanse of water, walk out to it." My friends have often said, "Why don't you cut the trees so you can see the water?" Etc.

I'm sure you marvel at the meeting of the forest edge and the beach. What an incredible strip of creation. For me, this strip is as precious as wetlands. You could not duplicate that landscape in a garden in a lifetime and yet, and this is what always amazes about some people that come up here, their first action is to change the very ground that defines "a remote, wild island in the waters of the straits of mackinac". They have not a CLUE about what a miracle an eight inch cedar tree is.

I'll stop now.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good suggestion Erica. We were encouraged to build up, as it is more economical, due to the expense of putting a larger footing/crawl/basement etc.... into the potentially unforgiving limestone. (If you catch a vein of bedrock) Plus, the more concrete you need, the more $$$$$! The water was low during our construction, so they could only fill the cement trucks half-full. We had to pay for twice as many cement trucks on the ferry. Crying or Very sad Actually, I'm not sure if they can bring a "full" cement truck over on the boat, in the most favorable water conditions. Anyone?
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doug miller
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know we already had this discussion in another forum topic, but I think there is room on the island for a variety of approaches to using our land. First, it is our land and the founding fathers drafted a constitution that protects our right to property as one of our essential rights. Now my hope is that people will treat their land respectfully and with a view towards cultivating it for their children and grandchildren. And my personal opinion, which I think is reflected on my property, is that the less clearing one does the better. But the fact is, when someone gets title to their property, they are entitled to use that property to the full extent the law allows. For some that means clearing their property and putting up a huge house and huge pole barn for "all the toys" as some realtors say. Others think it would be a violation of the land to cut even a single tree or build even a hut on the land, and they would simply take day trips to their land or camp on it. Most of us are somewhere in the middle, and most of those in the middle appear to believe (if the look of their property is an indication) that cutting enough trees to allow them to build their cottage and see the water from their cottage is an appropriate use of their land. I happen to agree with that. I live on an island in part to be able to live in view of the water that surrounds me.

There is also the practical concern I have that trees like those on BBI with its thin topsoil not be blown down on my cottage and my family. After seeing some good sized birch and fir trees fall near my cottage, I ultimately cut some trees that I initially left up so they wouldn't fall on the cottage.

The other thing I think must be considered here is that some who live on well-cleared lots or in houses very close to the water are not the original owners and did not do that clearing--and whatever your view on clearing, it is wrong to blame them for something someone else did, perhaps a long time ago.

I am a long time admirer of Henry David Thoreau's Walden--but even he had to kill some trees to build his cabin in the woods. And frankly, it isn't clear to me why a tree in the middle of the woods that is cut down is any less valuable than one on the shore. And if you throw into the mix the fact that most of us on the island our cutting down trees to build a cabin or second residence, wherever it is cut down--on the shore or deep in the woods, it is arguably a greater violation than a tree cut down to build a person's first residence.

Bottom line, within the great middle there are lots of land use perspectives that are legitimate, even if we don't happen to agree with them.
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:59 pm    Post subject: Shoreline Reply with quote

Yes, we did have this discussion. But again it gets stretched. The shoreline is not "a tree" or "a rock" or any one entity. It is quilt work of interconnected purpose. If one takes the time to analyze this area it becomes increasingly clear that it is a very unique community of plants, unique to the harsh conditions and powerful forces of the Straits of Mackinaw. These landscapes aint in Bay City, Saginaw, Detroit, Lansing, Grand Rapids or all of Ohio. They exist here. And seeing that landscape from the water is a blessing. Seeing the structure behind it is not.

I am not against building. I am against the way we go about building. The complete wipeout of frontage berms should be illegal period. And if it is not, why does it have to be done before construction begins. If one truly wants to be on Bois Blanc Island, let them enjoy the building experience, the land, the water, the ferry consideration, etc. before permantly scarring the edge of the island that every walker, or boater looks upon. Once the whole gravity of building on Bois Blanc Island sinks in, BAM, up goes the "For Sale" sign, and we are left with an ugly gash from over-enthusiastic land owners.

Exposing a structure to the water 24/7 365 days a year when it may only be used a few weeks in the summer, simply to see the water FROM the building during daylight hours, doesn't make sense. Small trails and very specific viewing "tunnels" can be notched through the shoreline edge curtain that give a view and can be virtually unnoticed from the water.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:15 pm    Post subject: I Reply with quote

I have seen where homes were built back in the woods away from the water with a trail that went to the water .. and it was very nice .....
this is what John E said and it is very nice !!
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:37 am    Post subject: shoreline preservation Reply with quote

Doug, you said, "
Quote:
I know we already had this discussion in another forum topic, but I think there is room on the island for a variety of approaches to using our land. First, it is our land and the founding fathers drafted a constitution that protects our right to property as one of our essential rights.
"

I, too, believe in a variety of approaches to using our land. I never suggested otherwise. In fact, that is exactly what I am advocating. The standard, time-worn, traditional clearing of frontage seems to be the only approach used by NEW construction. OBVIOUSLY, many good people, past genereations cleared unnecessarily...that's in the past. Even these people probably see in hindsight that other options may have been better. And that's my point. Go slow with the first, the most destructive and most permanent part of construction...the excavation, the cutting, and the dozing. Upon completion of the structure, if more excavation is requested, the trees, berms, and ground cover can be dozed into a memory.

I am not religious. But I think there is a higher standard than living up, or down, to what our founding fathers set in place. Noone owns the land. We are here for a short time and gone. To suggest that we have the absolute right to affect the land anyway we want because our 'founding fathers' said it is ok is ludicrous. "Hoping" people will be responsible for their actions is, also, pure folly, and you know that as well as I do. It aint gonna happen.

Preserving the view of shorelines from the water, preserves the very reason people come to BBI. We leave cities, neighborhoods, developments, condos, paved streets, street lights, and noise to come to a place that does not expose the very things we try so hard to escape. I do not care what people have done in the past. That was the way we were brought up, that was the way we thought. It was engrained into our subconscience. We have an opportunity to let future generations see this wild place like I did 15 years ago...minus a few thousand feet of gorgeous shoreline. If we act now, we can still showcase a miracle of creation with much of its original beauty intact for all to see. What do you say?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool I'm glad to see a positive discussion, airing views and encouraging change.. The cedar takes a long time to grow and it's doubly hard and less likely to reach it's full potential on the rock and thin top soil the Island offers.. I admire the trees that survive there, providing coolshade and seed and oxygen and pleasant smells and wind protection.. Personally, I'm for leaving the trees.. There are times when removal is the best option for safety and disease.. I'm sure more people are rethinking thier options after reading these discussions and understanding the passion behind it.. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a tought - But did you ever notice how much fuller ahd healthier a tree grows when you take away competition around it!!
Take a look at a lone tree and then take a look at a dense grove of trees - in a dense stand, there will be hardly any needles or leaves on any tree except near the top and it will not be able to capture enough sunlight to be healthy
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron Petersen wrote:
Just a tought - But did you ever notice how much fuller ahd healthier a tree grows when you take away competition around it!!
Take a look at a lone tree and then take a look at a dense grove of trees - in a dense stand, there will be hardly any needles or leaves on any tree except near the top and it will not be able to capture enough sunlight to be healthy


Interesting point, Sometimes a timber stand will benefit from thinning, more nutrients to the roots, fuller tops. Sometimes subjective decision have to be made about more/less desiarable species and which should be culled as crowding "better trees" A an aspen versus an oak? Forest management they call it. How the aspens come first to prepare the soil for the hardwoods and eventually a "climax forest" and all of that.

The flip side is that cedars are sort of in their own class. Very slow growing and evolve as a grove, dependant on each other as a mass. Ever see what happens when a cedar grove is "thinned". Those left standing cannot handle the force of the wind and eventually blow down due to shallow roots.

Deciding which cedars to "thin" will be a permanant decision. The wind may further thin any left standing. I suppose what I am suggesting it that the decision to cut cedars needs to be taken seriously and done slowly so as to allow adjacent trees to fill in the void.

Nothing is as simple as it appears.

C
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Erica
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Engel, believe me, you have my sympathy. There is a Boy Scout camp almost within my view here in Toledo. It's a beautiful place and has been of great use to the community (they let us use it for public nature walks, etc). I'm in a subdivision, almost surrounded by strip malls and big box stores, so to have such a place so close has been a pure joy. Until now.
The Boy Scouts are selling it. They have offered it at a reduced cost to the township, but no one has moved on the deal. An out-of-state developer wants to buy it to put up million-dollar plus luxury homes. I have no idea who he thinks will buy them. Tom Cruise maybe. (As if Jamie Farr in a dress wasn't hard to live down!)
The problem is that you can't make common sense mandatory. You have to put laws and ordinances in place to cover what you can and then hope for the best. I'm with you in the idea that you should build on BBI as you would building in a nature preserve, but I can also understand the logic in wanting area cleared around the structure. My Aunt Cathy had a tree break without warning last year that ended up breaking a window and landing in her dining room! A cleared area also means less of an insect problem in the house.
Maybe someone could look up guidelines on how to build while doing the least damage to the environment. If we could all look over that info, then maybe we could find the best way to set up laws that would both protect the island and the property owner's rights at the same time. Heck, I'll even see what I can find!
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Dan Reynolds
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Erica wrote:
The problem is that you can't make common sense mandatory.


Yup.

People buy heavily forested land and clear it. Other people buy wide open farmland and plant dozens of costly trees.

There's a line in Rocky Mountain High - "...Why they try to tear the mountains down to bring in a couple more... More people, more scars upon the land..." It makes the point. Buy the land, bulldoze it and then attempt to recreate what was already there. But this isn't a new or recent concept - it's gone on for as long as there have been people. The advent of dozers and chain saws and cars and trucks only accelerated it. Mankind has a lot of hard lessons to learn in the near future. Unfortunately, all the ordinances and land use restrictions in the world won't teach anyone those lessons. In trying to enforce common sense, they will only end up penalizing those of us who already do our best to make common-sense decisions about our land. It makes sense to clear trees in the immediate proximity of a building. It makes sense to build a building where it (a) does the least damage to the landscape and (b) is least likely to be damaged by the landscape. I can't understand why someone who wants a large clearing would be attracted to the Island. Although I have to respect others' rights to do as they wish with their own property, I look upon such massive attempts to re-shape the landscape as a sign of bad choices. If you move to BBI and are upset at the lack of retail establishments, you probably made a bad choice. If you move to Manhattan and complain about the lack of seclusion, you probably made a bad choice. And, if you buy BBI property and all those pesky trees are a nuisance to you, you guessed it... bad choice.

'nuff said.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bravo, John Elmer, for giving the hornet's nest a good whack!! Some interesting points and perspectives are being discussed, as a result. My wife and I were the fortunate beneficiaries of some good advice. "Don't cut your trees, (out front) until your building is complete. Then you can sit inside your living room, look out your front window(s), and thin them selectively." Also, we were told, that if we had to cut a tree, to cut it close to the ground, but leave the roots in place, to help with soil integrity. One more tip. If you're trying to choose between thinning a cedar, birch, poplar etc.... and a balsam pine....take out the balsam pine, as they are infected with a disease and will die eventually anyway. (Witch's Broom Disease?) Thanks to the Munros, Kimmeys, Browns, Steve Begle, Chuck Gekle and Reinhardt Jahn for the various tree pointers we were given. And then of course there are the Beech trees, which have been discussed, at length, in another thread. (Our many Beech trees, are well removed from the shoreline.)
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At one time I had a book entitled "low impact housing" or something to this effect. Bascially how to build a recreational structure with minimal environmental intrusion. One thing I recall was to skip excavation and build on piers. If codes will still permit this?

____________________________________________

One other thing about cedars groves which never occured to me. This was pointed out by my former neighbor who is a DNR forrester inclusive of BBI.

Cedars are SO slow growing. It may take ? hundreds of years for a grove to reach maturity and natural balance. The cedar groves on BBI were established long before white men ever set foot there. Dan (the dnr forestry expert) pointed out, to me, what a mature cedar is worth. Something like $100 on the stump for a 10-12" tree. (in the lower peninsula) So cut em now and who cares about later?

Won't they eventually come back? Dan says NO as long as there are deer populations in the present numbers. In non ag areas, poplar and cedar are primary food sources. Seedlings get up 6" and CHOMP. Even around the turn of the century, deer were scarce on Michigan. Not until the massive logging started, did deer really multiply. All because of food supply from new growth.

All food for thought. Or food for the deer? Ever see the fenced off deer browse studies on the island. Fences are down now but when they were up and holding the deer back, the difference between inside/outside the fence was dramatic in 5-10-20 year period. These studies were done back in the 50-s 60-s, seen several around the state.

C

PS, there are no shortage of balsams on the island. They grow like weeds anywhere and everywhere. Look at where they recently cut under the powerlines. Look again at the end of this summer!
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something to keep in mind...Isle Royale.
Scientists studied the relationship between the wolves and the moose for years there because it was a contained and controlled environment. Sight-seers were allowed as well. The balance between wolf and moose sweighed a little over time, and it showed the effects of weather, food supplies, etc on both populations. They almost lost it all through a simple mistake. A dog.
Someone brought their dog to the island. The dog had parvo. It's an airbourne disease that kills almost every unprotected dog who is exposed.
It ran like wildfire through the wolves, killing the pups and the older wolves first. By the time the scientists figured out what it was, almost ALL the wolves were dead. There is no cure, but there is a vaccine, so a very few were saved.
They talked about importing more wolves to even the balance, but in the end chose to let nature rule. The moose population exploded due to a lack of predators. They ate anything they could get a hold of. Eventually, their food ran out. The moose started getting sick. It was just in time. The few wolves left began having more and more cubs because now it was their food that was plentiful. The balance eventually righted itself.
The balance on BBI is much the same. It takes more time since trees live longer than animals, but if we all packed up and got out, the island would eventually grow over all our cottages, the structures would rot away and become fuel, the asphalt of the airstrip would crack into smaller and smaller pieces. Want proof? Go look at where the old logging camp used to be.
We all need to be aware of both our actions and their possible consequences. Really think through our choices before we act on them. If we can, heal some of the damage others have done. (I have never once found junk while I was walking the beach that I didn't pick up and put into my own garbage!) Even the small stuff helps.
Is there any way of establishing which BBI plants and animals are on "protected" lists? Can part of the building permit process be checking the site for endangered things?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Erica:

Comments: There are endangered species on the island (Dwarf Iris and others) and as I understand things, a study has to be done in advance of issuing wetland/shoreline building permits.

Item 2: The only way BBI would revert to a natural state is to make it a national park like Isle Royal. No more development period. Property owners are granted a life lease then it reverts to the park. Natural balance wins. I liked your analogy of the wolf/moose balance. Whoops no one figured on parvovirus (introduced by a domestic dog to an un innoculated wild wolf population).

Item 3: Look at the contrast between heavily developed MACK island and BBI, how long ago was it logging was banned on the island and lumber came from BBI? At one time, many moons ago, Mac and BBI were both tree covered rocks in the straits. So heads up?

Cedar saga continued:
_________________________

I see I have gotten myself out on a cedar limb.?

My message: Trees are a renewable resource. Some renew themselves faster than others. Be wise when you thin trees, especially cedar. Decisions are irreversible, at least over the next 50-100 years.

I have no problem whatsoever with intelligent forest/woodlot management. At one time, wildfire was the "forest manager". Now man is. There will be beech tree management forthcoming.

My post on the deer eating the cedar? They do this. I have seen places which have been logged on BBI (cedar) which is coming back into cedar. This means the deer-cedar balance on the island is in favor of the cedar and can handle reasonable harvesting, at least at the present time.

Last fall, I resided my BBI camp with cedar board/batten siding sawn from BBI cedar logs. It will take only a minute to justify my decision.

The options being :

Native materials taken from the island, by those who make a living working on the island (Rikers) which I would prefer to support above Georgia Pacific or other mega lumber companies. No fuel costs to import materials to the island. Sorry Curt.

Or Steel siding made from imported steel roll stock. Sorry.

Or plastic suburbia siding. PVC is petroleum based. Sorry.

Or any of 527 other manufactured composite materials. Sorry

I would like to recommend Russ Riker for lumber on the island. The service and quality was exceptional and the price quite reasonable. Russ went the extra distance to help me out, cut the siding to the thickness I requested, deliver it, ripped the batten strips…. provided me way more than enough and allowed me to pick and choose and then picked up what was left when I wrapped it up. You won’t get this from home depot.

I wound up with native-attractive siding which fits BBI and is a part of BBI. It cost me no more and maybe less, than if I would have used tacky manufactured siding. I guess I had to make a subjective judgement call on resource use. So. My decision to use native BBI cedar siding is part of the problem or the solution? No regrets whatsoever.

Thanks, Russ! I am not done yet and will be talking with you next trip up to the island.

C

I might be off the track a bit? Are we discussing the relative value of trees and appropriate cutting and use of a resource? It may be about aesthetics but it is also about resource management and balance on a much larger scale?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I keep trying to reply to you John, and without calling you names as you seem to see fit, but the Nazi's on here keep deleting it.
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John Elmer Engel
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Location: Bay City-BBI: East End

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:57 am    Post subject: Shoreline Talk Reply with quote

Hey, Me2, send me a PM (personal message) and you can ventlilate there. Sounds like you want to call me names. As our fearless leader in Washington so boldly announced, "Bring it on."
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doug miller
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi John:

Two comments.

First, my reference to the founding fathers was not to show that our property rights allow us to do anything on the property, but anything within the law. The law, including local ordinances, is made by the people and often reflects that fact that people do not agree on what the law should allow. As a result, the law is almost always a compromise and most of us will like it some and dislike it some. But until the law is changed, all of us have to live with it.

Second, while I come to BBI for the natural beauty, I also come for the community of folks I have met on the island. In fact, I think the island offers community in a much more real way than what is offered in our crowded but often personally/emotionally isolated cities and suburbs. And I personally love that short strip of homes on the waterfront in the Pines--I like the way the houses look, I like the sidewalk in front (where my son rode his tricycle a few years back), and I just like the feel of it. In short, I like coming to the island for the natural beauty and the ferry ride and Larry and Missy at Hawks Landing and the houses in the Pines and the one room schoolhouse and visiting as I have for the past 13 years with the Munros on the west end and, well, the whole package. The absolutely undeveloped Round Island has its place, and I hope it never is developed, but so does Mackinac Island and BBI--in their very different ways. (One of these days I am going to start a Forum topic on why Mackinac Island is one of my favorite places in the world!)
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me2
Lost Bouy


Joined: 10 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John, I wasn't calling you names at all. I was just trying to point out the unfortunate events that occured to Mini's property. Mini lost all those trees and I was afraid you might label her as an "idiot", thinking the tress were cut down.
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John Elmer Engel
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Location: Bay City-BBI: East End

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:27 am    Post subject: Shoreline Reply with quote

Doug, did you ever see the Pines in its natural state, i.e. before houses? That makes it tough to compare. I too enjoy the Pines, the sidewalk, the beautiful cottages from a by-gone day. I show this historic area to friends when they come up here.

The beauty of BBI is the combination of all the attributes you mentioned. A loss of any one of them would diminish the appeal. But the foundation of all these is the natural beauty of the island... seen from the water as well as from the land.
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John Elmer Engel
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply to Me2 Reply with quote

Me2, I do not know a "Mini". I have no idea where, when, or who, you are referring to.

I'm referring to the lot north of me that was bulldozed 10-12 years ago...sideline to sideline...96% of frontage trees cut...3% more blew down since...the guy was an idiot. I would tell him to his face but I have never seen him or the next two owners. I'm beginning to wonder if the reason noone shows up there is because ALL of the old trees are GONE.

People strolling on the berms were horrified when they initially saw this atrocity...and that was over 10 years ago.

I'm sorry if I have hurt someone's feelings. But this approach to building a "remote, lakeside hideaway" seemed to merit at least one bad word and that word is/was idiot.
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